Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Unidentified Committee Chair (Vermont Legislature)]: So I think we're everyone's here who's gonna be here.

[Ernest Alvin "Buster" Caswell III (Farmworker housing advocate; employee at Champlain Orchards)]: I'm still here.

[Unidentified Committee Chair (Vermont Legislature)]: Okay. Good. Richard, and then I think Greg's trying to multitask as well. We had intended to have testimony later this afternoon on farm worker housing as well. That's Dan Baker. Just because it was getting so late and I knew we were people were gonna be leaving, I figured let's wait until we have everybody available. So we're just gonna hear from Buster this afternoon. We had I think you were remote last time in terms of the discussion and testifying. So it's nice to see you in person again. And whatever you would like to share with us in the next half hour or so about your insights and understanding of Vermont's farmworker housing and perhaps other states, we're happy to hear that. And start by introducing yourselves Thank to

[Ernest Alvin "Buster" Caswell III (Farmworker housing advocate; employee at Champlain Orchards)]: you for your time. My name is Ernest Alvin Caswell III, commonly known as Buster. I grew up in the Randolph, Vermont area. I attended, which is now called the Randolph Area Technical Career Center. I was a vocational student there for four years. I was an FFA member. I was an officer. I was the treasurer during that time. And that was back in the eighties. '86 was my last year. And since then I worked in agriculture for the majority of my life. I currently I'm employed at Champlain Orchards. It's not my job to be here. Everything I do advocacy wise is on my own, completely volunteer. And for eight years, I was a board member of a not for profit organization that's headquartered in Rochester, New York. We have they have an office here in St. Albans where that organization is has a large footprint. They work in nine states and Puerto Rico, and part of their work is affordable housing. One of the NeighborWorks America partners, there's over 200 Chimplain Housing Trust and five other, I think, NeighborWorks America are in Vermont. That's where I gained a lot of my experience on farmworker housing and affordable housing. In

[Ernest Alvin "Buster" Caswell III (overlap correction)]: my

[Ernest Alvin "Buster" Caswell III (Farmworker housing advocate; employee at Champlain Orchards)]: advocacy started around boots on the ground in Vermont around 2019. After being a board member, I learned of all the work that that organization has done for farm workers and farmers and in agriculture communities. They've worked on farm worker housing repair programs in those various states, including New York. They've also developed off the farm housing in those areas where the need was. And in order for organizations, whether it's half stone or whether it's an organization in California, Oregon, even Maine, you have to demonstrate the needs. You have to demonstrate the needs to for folks to invest in farm worker housing, whether it's a farmer or whether it's an organization who sees the needs and it's been demonstrated and they can go, hey, we can do this and we can invest in off farm worker housing, much like farmers need workers. And in 2021, Vermont Housing and Conservation Board released a Vermont Housing Needs Assessment, much needed one, a very well put together report by the consultants. That report was focused on the present and immediate needs that could be addressed at that time. And we have to keep in mind during that time period, we were in COVID. Okay. So there was not much activity of anyone getting together during that time period and Zoom was just was not really known during that time period. So anyways, out of that report, which I believe most of you have access to and have read in that first paragraph, last sentence, it recognizes it's only worked because it's on the farmhouse. And with that report, it demonstrated a lot of the needs that Vermont did not know at that time. It demonstrated some recommendations. It gave recommendations to be creative and it gave some potential ideas on how to address those needs and the potential resources and and things of that nature. So people realize the urgency of the need and Vermont Housing Conservation Board issued an RFP to to create what is now known and it's brand new. Okay? Vermont didn't have anything like this at all. All this is all new. The farmworker housing repair program is new and it's a one of its kind. It's it's a success. Everyone is grateful that it's it's there and it's well utilized and have been taking care of those immediate needs, fixing and repairing homes that are outdated, updating air quality, addressing some of the efficiencies, addressing some of the safety concerns. And they took it a little bit more and they piloted a program to replace some of those homes. Some of those homes are just out of condition where fixing it up makes no sense. Let's replace it. And they've got funding for that. So they've got two programs that are very successful. You've heard testimony on the success. All that stuff started just a few years ago, 2022, and it needs to continue funding for several more years. It should be in the state budget because it's such a challenge for Vermont Housing and Conservation Board when they got so many other needs as well. And that's a big one. Recently, and I've been advocating this for a long time, Vermont needs a updated, it needs a comprehensive agricultural workforce needs assessment. In Vermont, according to this report, there's 54,900 agricultural direct jobs within the state of Vermont. 107,000 total jobs within the agricultural industry. And the farm to plate report that came out a few years ago, the latest number of folks that are directly on the farms is over 9,000, right around 10,000. And to meet the needs of everyone in agriculture, that's why we need a comprehensive report so that in that way we get an understanding of everybody involved in agriculture. This 54,900, which includes people who work in the processing plants, people who work in the fields as well, people who are delivering those products. The whole thing. Vermont is in a housing state where there are many challenges. I don't think I need to bring you that challenge you hereby on a regular basis. It's like our homelessness among all 50 states, I think, rank in the top five, and that's that's needs a lot of work to take care of those homeless folks, and homeless folks are on the farm as well. If you're living in a in a barn that is not considered in any way, shape, form, a home of any kind, then that's homelessness. And it exists in agriculture. That's why I request a a comprehensive report that addresses everybody. It addresses the people that work in Cabot. It addresses the people who work up in the St. Albans, whether it's Middlebury, even the small cheese makers that brings all that in. And it would make recommendations and it would also bring out different types of housing, different types of homes that have been developed that you might not know about at this present time. The report that was generated was focused on farm housing. And I also recommend to help get that report much like our two housing reports. There's a Vermont Housing Needs Assessment, which is like over 300 pages. It talks about in chapter 10 on page one twenty nine, there's just one little section that talks about migrant workers and it also points out the point 21 housing needs assessment And that came out. It's addressed for meeting the 2025 through 2029. And that's updated periodically as it should be. And then the fair housing analysis 2024 update pages 68 through 70 also mentions the farm worker housing needs assessment report back from 2021 and here we are 2026. And Those, all those reports, the housing needs assessment, farm worker housing needs assessment, many people took part and contributed to the completion of that report. And it would be most helpful if Vermont had a formulated a task force, a working group, or a committee that would bring you updated reports and success and needs on a regular basis. Not what's missing in Vermont that has been done in other states, several other states all across the country, New York, Oregon, Michigan, California, New Mexico. Maine has a group. New York has a couple of groups that are committed to working together to get you all the information that you need. So investors can look at that, say, Hey, that's a nice investment. We should do this with this funding and this funding and work with the USDA and work with the state of Vermont and even the private sector. We can do that. We can help farmers build homes on farm that have the capacity. Not every farmer has the capacity and the ability to invest in housing for their employees. Housing is very expensive and it's continuing to go up. But nonprofits in good standing like Champlain Housing Trust, Ever North, Addison Housing Works, and others throughout, they do have the capacity to build homes, develop homes off the farm. So all farm workers and beginning farmers and retiring farmers would have an opportunity to have a place to call home. Something that hasn't been done in Vermont, but it's been done in several other states all out all across the country. And I have to remind folks of the symbol of agriculture sits on our capital. And it's sitting on home, those folks in agriculture need and deserve to have homes developed to grow our agricultural community. Thank you. Thank you, Buster.

[Unidentified Committee Member (Vermont Legislature)]: Questions? Yeah, Buster, would you support if funds were available that what we heard of with the HCV, Farm for Care Housing Program, with Champlain Housing Trust, that these fixes could also apply to the farm owner housing, too, or their children. Because in some ways, there are a lot of farmers with really substandard housing because there's no money in the business, they're suffering a lot of that.

[Ernest Alvin "Buster" Caswell III (Farmworker housing advocate; employee at Champlain Orchards)]: When you talk about the agriculture community, I'm talking about the farmer as well. And farmers absolutely need and deserve access to all the fundings to make their homes be affordable, be efficient, all those things you mentioned because that's a need as well that folks in the housing world don't have knowledge. Thank you for bringing that up. That's very critical. We need to address both the needs of the farmer themselves. Right? Because some farmers are farmers with just their family. And their farm might not be located on the farm. So they need every available source in need available so they can be a farm, whether it's on their land or someplace else. So definitely and Vermont Housing and Conservation Board should recognize that need and address that need as well as the state itself. Absolutely. There are resources out there, but if you don't know what they are, right? You're or a way to find them, right? You can't you don't know. So that's much like the needs of addressing farm worker housing, okay? People don't know. They don't know how to address it. That's something our housing development, these writers of the housing needs assessment for housing analysis, they sadly have not really appropriately captured our agricultural economy and the needs of that. So I'm very grateful there's work being done now, but there's a lot more that can be done. And a comprehensive needs assessment and or a group created could address exactly what you're talking about and then some.

[Unidentified Committee Member (Vermont Legislature)]: The bill on farm worker minimum wage, it came up this idea of a no fault neutral group who the farming community, farm owners, would not be afraid to say, come out and look at their farm worker housing or even their own housing. And that group then could somehow connect them with things like this program. But do you feel like since you know it better than I do, the Champlain Housing Trust is sort of that group already doing that work or is there a need for that sort of some sort of intermediary that farmers wouldn't be like, this isn't an inspection, we're just coming to help you improve everything that makes a home a home, whether it's for your farm workers or your own home?

[Ernest Alvin "Buster" Caswell III (Farmworker housing advocate; employee at Champlain Orchards)]: Challenging question. You need a group. There is not a group and you're right, farmers, that is a challenge. And if there was a farm worker, a housing committee or a group, they could also work on those wage issues. At least bring them to light because they would be working with farmers, Champlain House and Trust, UVM, they'd be working with migrant justice, Milkwood Dignity, and others that sort are of reluctant to work together, you know. In other states there are groups when there are groups, you get a lot more done because not one person can solve a problem. Not what they need cannot solve everything. Migrant justice cannot solve everything. Champlain Housing Trust work on loan cannot solve it. That's why you need groups to work on those to solve those problems. And wages are a challenge because it goes way back in history from the federal government making several exemptions. And that includes unemployment benefits, you know, farm goes out of business or you get let go or whatever you work on a farm. Vermont does have this threshold. I think it's 10 workers or more, like a 20,000 quarterly wage where those workers might get unemployment. But overall, you know, you're you lose your job, you you know, unemployment benefits, you're not eligible to apply. And yeah. And there's other challenges. Just like overtime. You know that started at the federal level and some states had worked on it, but that's even hard because many workers, they want to work as many hours as they want to, you know, and the farmer wants that, you know, because we know unless you work at IBM or work at GED, you know, you're only clocking in a forty hour week and those folks, unless you have to, they don't want their workers working overtime you. And it is a it's a hard challenge. When I often worked in on dairy farms, I never got paid an hourly wage. I got paid a salary. Okay, this is your job. This is how much you're getting paid. And depending on the farmer, they might have a home to live in or they might not. So every every business is uniquely different. And we have to respect that.

[Unidentified Committee Chair (Vermont Legislature)]: Any other questions for Buster? Thank you for coming in.

[Ernest Alvin "Buster" Caswell III (Farmworker housing advocate; employee at Champlain Orchards)]: If I could just make one last thing, keep in mind 54,000 people and it would be a investment in agriculture, it would be an investment for our state to create such a working group or a task force or a committee would be an investment just like investing in a comprehensive farm worker, a comprehensive agricultural workforce housing needs assessment. Those would be an investments that I hope you folks can bring to light and be active on working towards. Thank you.

[Unidentified Committee Chair (Vermont Legislature)]: It's a helpful way to think about it. Right, we will wrap up for the day. Tomorrow, we'll be back in the committee at 09:30 as usual. We have nothing scheduled for tomorrow at the moment after the floor, and we'll try to keep it that way. Don't think the floor is gonna be a little bit longer, so I think we'll be done next week at lunchtime.

[Ernest Alvin "Buster" Caswell III (Farmworker housing advocate; employee at Champlain Orchards)]: Tomorrow, but

[Unidentified Committee Chair (Vermont Legislature)]: not on Friday. Friday we have I'm not sure what the floor