Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Committee Chair (name not stated)]: So we're gonna turn our attention now to h five thirty six. That's an act relating to toxic heavy metals in baby food products. And Randall Query, I hope I've got your name correct, is our next witness. He is director of governmental relations to the American Association for Laboratory Accreditation and is here to tell us a little bit about how how procedures outlined in the bill to verify that baby food is free of the substances that we're concerned about, how that would be tested. Welcome.

[Randy Quarry, Director of Government Relations, American Association for Laboratory Accreditation (A2LA)]: Well, thank you. Thank you for this opportunity and your time. Yes. You've got my you captured my name correctly. It's Randy Quarry. I'm with the American Association for Laboratory Accreditation, a two l a. We're a nonprofit accreditation body that currently accredits over 4,500 labs, 4,515 as of this morning, in all 50 states, and we act on a global basis as well. We have six organizations accredited in your state of Vermont, including Vermont Department of Health Laboratory that tests food commodities and environmental samples. We're headquartered in Frederick, Maryland, we also have an office in Boulder, Colorado, but we have technical experts that are located throughout the country that serve as our assessors or technical experts. We've been around close to fifty years. We started in 1979 providing laboratory accreditations. Our main mission is to accredit testing laboratories, and that's to the baseline standard ISO IEC 17,025. That's an international standard written specifically for the testing and calibration laboratories. It covers quality management system requirements as well as technical. When conducting Oh, we ourselves are also evaluated as an accreditation body to an international standard, and we go through peer evaluations on a four year cycle. So, lab accreditation's on a two year cycle, but we go through what our customers have to go We through with do that on a four year cycle. When conducting testing for toxic metals, especially in products such as baby food, ensuring test results are critical to all parties involved. So, it's crucial that the testing be conducted by a technically competent laboratory who has been accredited to ISOIC 17025 by an accreditation body who is signatory to the Global Accreditation Cooperation Incorporated. So, what that means is what I just told you, where we undergo a peer evaluation, we're recognized internationally. That's that cooperation, the Global Accreditation Cooperation Incorporated, And in The United States, there's roughly nine accreditation bodies similar to us that maintain that recognition. Four of those, at least four of those accreditation bodies have the expertise and ability to accredit testing laboratories that are conducting food testing. So, to achieve ISO 17,025 accreditation, the testing laboratories must maintain a quality management system. That's record keeping, training of staff, conducting internal audits and management reviews, having a complaint handling system. But then they also must demonstrate their technical competence, and that's by showing our assessors the actual test. We observe them performing tests, how they handle the samples through how they issue a test report. So, the whole process. We evaluate their equipment to make sure that it's been well maintained, that it's been calibrated, and what other parameters are necessary. We, evaluate their records to see what they're doing when we're not there on-site to see that they can demonstrate to us that they're operating at this accredited level throughout the time period. And we, ensure that they have trained, experienced staff. So, it's not a rubber stamp. The testing laboratories go through a two to three day assessment, depending on the size of their laboratory and the amount of tests they're running. So, our assessors are a core part of this process because we take technical experts from the industry and from universities or from government entities, we train them, they already know the food testing requirements, they have a minimum of ten years experience, but many of them have much more closer to twenty or thirty years experience. They're chemists, microbiologists, depending on the area of expertise. We match the assessors up with the scope of accreditation of the applicant lab to make sure we have a good technical match. We train the assessors on the ISO standards and on professional conduct of an assessment. You could have the world's best chemist, but if they don't know how to interact in a lab and have personal skills and know how to audit and evaluate things, it's not the greatest fit. So, we ensure that they're thorough, that they have proper assessment skills, soft skills, and that they're efficient in conducting an assessment. They must pass a written exam, and after that, and they're signed off to do an assessment, we evaluate how they do first by watching them perform an assessment, then watching them lead assessments, and then on a three year cycle, they get evaluated. So, we put a lot of resources in ensuring that we have effective technical experts out there conducting the assessments. The laboratories, again, they have to demonstrate to us that they've implemented a quality system that meets ISO 17,025 and they're operating to that level. And that also includes conducting proficiency tests, which is often offered to laboratories by industry to ensure they continue to meet specific testing parameters and how they are operating compared to other labs in the area for that type of testing. So, they must participate in that to ensure their to show their confidence. I'll leave it at that. Specific to House Bill five thirty six, I think it's well written, and it's very similar to what's passed in Virginia, Maryland, and California already. It's important that it lists ISO 17,025 standard, which you have, John, because there's thousands of ISO standards out there, it's important to get the appropriate one listed. One item I would point out is on page two, line 16, it says there's an or in there and that should be an and, so that's a minor change that's needed there.

[Committee Chair (name not stated)]: Can I just pause have you pause there just so and I've got that bill in front of me and I'm not sure that everybody else does, but word or is between two different organizations? So is that correct?

[Randy Quarry, Director of Government Relations, American Association for Laboratory Accreditation (A2LA)]: They're different organizations, but they both collaborate to create this ISO standard. So, as written, it's ISOIEC. That's how it's in the title of the standard itself. Different entities, but they when creating this ISO standards, it's considered an an ISO and IEC.

[Committee Chair (name not stated)]: What does ISO stand for?

[Randy Quarry, Director of Government Relations, American Association for Laboratory Accreditation (A2LA)]: International stand Organization for Standardization.

[Committee Chair (name not stated)]: The the letters are reversed there. Should be iOS, it seems.

[Randy Quarry, Director of Government Relations, American Association for Laboratory Accreditation (A2LA)]: Yeah. It's European based out of Geneva. Oh, yes. Part of it.

[Committee Chair (name not stated)]: Very Western centric update here. Yeah. So we'll thank you for flagging that. We'll make a note. Your suggestion anyway is that the that the laboratory should be credited by both, and it sounds like that would be not a hurdle. Any other thoughts?

[Randy Quarry, Director of Government Relations, American Association for Laboratory Accreditation (A2LA)]: The also on page two under the, I guess, the definition for baby food product, you specifically state that it does not include infant formula. And I just wanted to provide information regarding that. Maryland has introduced a bill this year based on their Rudy's Law, which was the baby food, toxic heavy metals and baby food law that they passed, I believe in 2024, they added infant formula this year. Now it's still going through the legislative process, but I believe that may have something to do with a recent report issued by Consumer Reports that tested 44 different types of infant formula and they found, half of them had presence of contaminants in that, including heavy metals in some of them. So, you may want to, consider including infant formula under this bill or at consider more research towards that.

[Committee Chair (name not stated)]: You. Representative Nelson had a question.

[Rep. Richard Nelson (Ranking Member)]: Yeah, thank you, Mr. Gregory, for that. When I read this bill, the first thing I thought is the first food a baby may be exposed to is infant formula. And why this is an in error? And I meant it mentioned it to the bill presenter who is a new mother. She went home and and scoped out the formula she is using and threw it away and went and bought a different formula because it it and found to be tested positive for lead. So thank you for that. And I hope that in our committee, we take that up and write that into the bill because I wanna be the first to get that done.

[Committee Chair (name not stated)]: In terms of the laboratory, the ability to test for these metals, these heavy metals in infant formula, would that present any challenges?

[Randy Quarry, Director of Government Relations, American Association for Laboratory Accreditation (A2LA)]: I don't think so. It's very similar matrix that as to what is baby food. So I I would not think that there would be any lift there for the laboratories.

[Committee Chair (name not stated)]: Thank you. Representative Burke.

[Rep. Mollie S. Burke (Member)]: I looked into what the definition of toxic heavy metals is and aluminum is listed in some definitions and but I the bill itself, I don't know if it listed aluminum as one of the metals to be tested. Is that is aluminum something that you regularly test for? Or is that it seems to me that that would be something we would want to make sure it's tested for as well in this. Is that what's your take on that?

[Randy Quarry, Director of Government Relations, American Association for Laboratory Accreditation (A2LA)]: Well, that's an interesting question. I think most of them include just four heavy metals specific to baby food and I believe that's based on what the FDA has got guidance, the U. S. Food and Drug Administration, and I think a lot of that's those targeted for Arsenic, Lead, and of

[Committee Chair (name not stated)]: course,

[Randy Quarry, Director of Government Relations, American Association for Laboratory Accreditation (A2LA)]: right now, Cadmium, I believe. Sorry, I'm forgetting that, the fourth one. But I think they're naturally, some of them are naturally occurring in the soils, and so some of the ingredients like rice or carrots, the root vegetables absorb it, and that's how a lot of it's being found in the baby food ingredients. I'm not sure aluminum would fall into that. And then the other aspect is environmental contaminants. And so, if there is a risk of aluminum showing up, then that certainly would one would want to add that to the bill, but my, from the knowledge I've known from following this issue and what I've read at the FDA website, don't believe aluminum has been a concern.

[Committee Chair (name not stated)]: Looking at this metal, not all metals are heavy metals, and I'm not sure how those are defined. It's maybe in the periodic table, which we all remember from many words of. I

[Rep. Richard Nelson (Ranking Member)]: I don't even mention Virgin Islands.

[Committee Chair (name not stated)]: Well, we'll take a look at that. Thank you. Representative O'Brien? Yeah. Randall, I just wonder with some of these bills moving in other states, Do labs also do testing on breast milk to see how much heavy metals are coming through, say a mother's diet of a certain amount of food that would pass through to breast milk with maybe similar heavy metals?

[Randy Quarry, Director of Government Relations, American Association for Laboratory Accreditation (A2LA)]: That is another good question. I have not seen that specific testing done. There are the cases where I've seen breast milk considered for testing is when you have donor, banks and they're testing more for contaminants in the milk from the donor if, say, they're doing diet or drug type issues or something. So, I have not seen it specific to heavy metals.

[Committee Chair (name not stated)]: Thank you. Just regarding baby food. So the bills that have passed in other states, I wonder what the impact would be on on the food chain as it relates to baby food, to have Vermont or any other state now add, you know, add its name to the list of states that have passed a bill like this. Since the companies are national in scope and they certainly might label differently depending on the state. But to the extent that they're already having to comply with laws in other states, how much of an impact would our passing the law as written affect manufacturers in your opinion?

[Randy Quarry, Director of Government Relations, American Association for Laboratory Accreditation (A2LA)]: I don't think it's a major impact as far as there are already companies that are meeting this that are major baby food manufacturers. So, chances are if you went to the grocery store today and went to the shelves, you would find, a couple of the main, main brand, major brands that would have a QR code on it that would link it back to their, a test report. So, those are nationwide brands. It, you know, may impact a smaller producer regionally. Again, getting an accredited lab, there are food testing labs that already meet ISO 17,025. They're testing heavy metals, So, it wouldn't be a huge challenge for a manufacturer to reach out and be able to send samples to them. I think, the bill says monthly samples that have to be sent to the proficient lab, a proficient laboratory. So I think it's relatively reasonable. Plus, when you consider the risk that you're looking at to the infants in Vermont.

[Committee Chair (name not stated)]: I think you said that there are labs in Vermont, six labs in Vermont that could do this kind of testing. If there were a company based, a regional company or just a local company that needed to comply if we enacted this, there are laboratories nearby that could do the work?

[Randy Quarry, Director of Government Relations, American Association for Laboratory Accreditation (A2LA)]: Well, to be clear on that, I mentioned that we accredit six laboratories in Vermont, but there are many different industries. They're not specific to food testing other than currently the Department of Health Food Testing Laboratory.

[Committee Chair (name not stated)]: Okay. Alright. Other questions. Sure. Can I

[Rep. Richard Nelson (Ranking Member)]: have Nelson? Yeah. I have a couple. So how would we so if we were to strike out where it says on page two line three, baby food product does not include infant formula. If we were to strike at line out or right does include infant formula, infant formula would have the same type of testing as baby food, the more traditional baby foods.

[Randy Quarry, Director of Government Relations, American Association for Laboratory Accreditation (A2LA)]: Alright. And You're nodding for the record? Yeah. Okay. And

[Rep. Richard Nelson (Ranking Member)]: I should have wrote down my second question. I'm

[Randy Quarry, Director of Government Relations, American Association for Laboratory Accreditation (A2LA)]: sorry to interrupt. You probably wanna make that clear that it does include Yeah. Infant formula.

[Rep. Richard Nelson (Ranking Member)]: My other question, I Okay. Slots in space.

[Committee Chair (name not stated)]: Anybody on this side of the room have any questions? Okay. I don't think I did either. So, any, anything else that you wanted to add while we have you?

[Randy Quarry, Director of Government Relations, American Association for Laboratory Accreditation (A2LA)]: I think that covers it. Again is, oh, arsenic, cadmium, lead, and mercury.

[Committee Chair (name not stated)]: Okay. Yeah. Arsenic. Yeah.

[Randy Quarry, Director of Government Relations, American Association for Laboratory Accreditation (A2LA)]: I think that was the main issues all in all, a great bill you have in place. We should continue success as you discern it.

[Committee Chair (name not stated)]: I will say, and I'll of pose this as a question, but I'm not really expecting you to be able to answer, but just wanted to put it out there that if there's a we would be happy to take testimony from baby food manufacturer. And perhaps your so the question is, do you know of do you have a contact, somebody who you might have encountered previously testifying in other states? And if you are able to assist with that, great. But I'm also just putting out there anybody listening might follow-up too.

[Randy Quarry, Director of Government Relations, American Association for Laboratory Accreditation (A2LA)]: Right. We have a couple that are accredited testing laboratories that I could follow-up with that information. I'm not sure they've testified for any of the other states. And I could also look to see who's testifying in Maryland on the existing bill to see if that would be helpful.

[Committee Chair (name not stated)]: That would be helpful. Thank you. Alright. Good. Well, thank you for joining us this afternoon. Alright. Take care. Thank you. So we've got the food bank is maybe out in the fall. I think they're not scheduled to be here for another five minutes. If not, you're.

[Rep. Richard Nelson (Ranking Member)]: Chairman sometimes might filter.

[Committee Chair (name not stated)]: I have some speakers that I'll share later about the eighth seat at the table too. Can share? Can you just send me a Zoom link so I can While share my we're getting set up, we can go off live too, Patricia.