Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Jamie (Audubon Vermont)]: Sorry about this.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: Okay.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair, House Committee on Environment and Energy)]: You probably shot the last one of those birds in the pond,

[Rep. Tim Roper (Member)]: then your yellow lab brought it back to you.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair, House Committee on Environment and Energy)]: Would you require that everyone comes here in front of 12? Here we go.

[Jamie (Audubon Vermont)]: Good. Been a Mac user my whole life and had to switch over to Dell, so I'm gonna blame it on that.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair, House Committee on Environment and Energy)]: So I'm gonna ask the committee to have to restrain ourselves. No questions. We got twenty minutes here.

[Jamie (Audubon Vermont)]: I'll do this very quickly, and my testimony on the report will actually be fairly brief. So, yeah, I just wanted to orient you very quickly to Audubon Vermont, here in Vermont. So part of the National Audubon Society received a large reach as far as the work that National Audubon does across the hemisphere. Just a couple of statistics here about the organization at large. Hopefully,

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair, House Committee on Environment and Energy)]: many of

[Jamie (Audubon Vermont)]: you are familiar with the organization. Taking a hemispheric approach, obviously, in part because birds travel. And I'll talk in a second just about the significance of our region for breeding birds in particular, but National Audubon's work covers the entire hemisphere from Canada down to Central And Southern America. Strategic initiatives in these categories, it doesn't mean that our work is exclusive to these, this gives you just an orientation of where there's some large initiatives that we focus on. And really focusing on trying to call bend the bird curve. We're seeing a very significant decline in bird species. This is of concern. It relates to climate change, it relates to habitat loss, it relates to a lot of factors. But the organization is very committed to trying to reverse this curve as best we can. You can just see here, you know, some of statistics as far as the measured loss from 1970. So almost 3,000,000,000, you know, birds have been estimated to have been lost. Here in Eastern Forest, 170,000,000 Eastern Forest birds lost. And so we're concerned, we're concerned about the decline in species. And we're looking at the suite of different habitats that these species rely on, whether it be young forest, old forest and mature forest, a mix of forest, bird species have a lot of different habitat requirements. And as you can see, we're in this hub of breeding, the breeding factory, if you will. So Vermont is a focal point where critically important for the success of breeding birds. And so that's why Audubon Vermont is so interested in how we manage our lands, how we manage our forests, how we manage our farms, how can we do it in order to maintain these breeding bird populations. So we do that through conservation work. And we have a lot of attention on healthy forests. We have programs like bird friendly maple, where we're working with sugar bush producers to advance bird friendly ecological forestry principles, carbon related management, forest or endorsement program, where we're actually working with foresters and endorsing foresters on practices that they're working with, with their landowners who are interested in the health and viability of birds in particular, but wildlife and biodiversity, it's not we're not just exclusively looking at just the health of birds. We're interested in wildlife and biodiversity at large and forest health. So if any of these programs are of interest to you, be glad to come back with the program directors that work on these programs. But again, very quickly, we also focus on bird and bee friendly farming and working with We worked with 42 landowners last year to steward habitat for priority birds like bobble lynch, eastern meadowlark, and American woodcock on over 1,200 acres of land. Birds and watersheds, we're working on riparian health, invasive species, riparian plantings, looking at riparian health because that's so important for bird species and the well-being of our communities as well as we look at sort of climate resilience and flood resilience. We have priority bird initiatives. We're actually focused on particular species and helping their recovery, including bald eagles and common terns, bobolinks and eastern meadowlarks. So about half of our staff, we're about 14, half of our staff works on conservation programs. Some of the programs I just mentioned, half are engaged in education. I just learned the other day, and I didn't realize this, but National Audubon Society is actually the largest environmental education organization in the country. And so I was impressed when I heard that because I know we're doing this work in Vermont, but obviously it's across the country and across the hemisphere. So our programs are run out of our Green Mountain Audubon Center in Huntington, where we have the center with two fifty five acres of trails. This is where we do a lot of educational programming with school children. The public are invited to use these trails for free. And there's quite a lot of educational opportunities on at the center, engaging community building. You know, I've seen the numbers fluctuate anywhere from about five to 6,000 people that we're engaging on an annual basis. And this covers school programs, preschool, forest classroom, youth conservation leadership, nature playgroups, a lot of outreach programs. And we're also building the next generation of conservation leaders. A part of a project, you may have received a pamphlet for the Serve, Learn, Earn project, and that's a coalition of Audubon, Vermont, Vermont Youth Conservation Corps and resource, and Vermont Works for Women, where we're actually engaging in service learning opportunities, working with youth, training them skills on habitat assessments, forestry skills, bird conservation, and working through AmeriCorps program with that. And then we focus on habitat conservation, both the landowners and at our site. So we're doing demonstration for bird friendly land management on-site. And we just actually did an acre and a half of some thinning work on our property with the Vermont Youth Conservation Corps. So we're looking at sort of the applied aspects of our work on our land as well. And then finally, we engage in policy. So there's conservation education and policy. As I mentioned, I'll be here interested in helping as I can. We'll have a new policy manager on hand to help. And we'll be interested in any issues that you're working on, whether it be forestry, agricultural issues, implementation of the Pollinator Protection Act, rodenticides, land use issues that affect the viability of our habitat and forests, like the land use reform efforts, the 30 by 30 planning initiative. So all of these are of interest, and please use us as a resource. So that was just a quick background. And so I can pivot to the report. So as was mentioned, I did participate as a stakeholder during a report development when I was at Vermont Natural Resources Council. I was one of a couple of representatives from the conservation community. Been interested in this topic for for many years. We when while I was at the NRC, we supported efforts to try and find efficiencies for wood products manufacturing, we supported legislation that actually advanced allowing a lot of permits to be treated as a minor permit versus a major based on the threshold of of material that was being processed. This report was an interesting exercise because it looked out how well that was working, where there were gaps, where it was working, and where there were gaps. And so it was interesting to see sort of the evolution of some of that attention. We also supported things in the past, like offering more flexibility for hours of operation. So there's been a number of steps along the way. And then there was this was a very deep dive to kind of look at the permitting process as well and where to find efficiencies. When I was with the NRC, I know one of the concerns is, over the years, there have been at times proposals to almost exempt the majority of forest processing from environmental review. And that's where I know historically there's been some concern because there can be impacts from the projects and it's finding that balance point. How do we have an efficient permitting process? How do we still look at impacts that make sense to try and address or mitigate? So I think the report as a whole, at least in my opinion, did a very good job of trying to advance a number of policies where there was a lot of support, a lot of policies that made sense. There were a lot of things internally that the Land Use Review Board decided that it could do through its own rules, through its own interactions with the applicants that are coming through the process. As you probably as you I'm sure you've already learned, there's a lot that they're doing in regards to the fact sheet and front end information. They're going to be looking at revising a number of their rules to address issues. And then there's a couple of legislative proposals that are in in the memo from the Land Use Review Board that try and bring will drive more consistency and predictability as far as forestry being exempt as an activity under 2,500 feet, trying to make sure that, you know, log landings and concentration yards are not that they are exempt, which was historically how it was covered. So those policies, now here wearing my Audubon hat and because of what I wanted to orient you to is we are engaged in this work. We're doing forestry work ourselves. We're working with landowners to promote bird friendly and ecologically sustainable forestry. We're well aware of the importance of the forest products industry and having viable opportunities for landowners to manage their forest, keep their forest as forest, which is vitally important. And for us to try and do this in the best way possible in Vermont. So I come at it from a perspective of working now at an organization that is is part of part of this work and and wants to see us succeed in finding the right balance point on these on these policies. So we support the report. We support the legislative items that I believe are in front of you. The two that were drafted by the Land Use Review Board, reviewed the language. I think it makes sense to me. I didn't really notice where there are red flags or questions at this point, but I'll continue to analyze it. I haven't had time to review all the testimony that you've had, but did see enough to to maybe notice that maybe there's been a request. There's a Stony Brook, I think, question as far as whether okay. Yeah. I've seen nods. And I remember we were talking about this in the stakeholder group, and Stony Brook is confusing. It's confusing as far as how how it works and how it's been applied. So I think it's really important to hear from the land use review board because as I understand it, the recommendation was yes to utilize Stony Brook. It can be of assistance to applicants and especially for applicants that have forest products processing facilities. And it makes sense to to try and apply it. But the question was, do you do it in a blanket form, which would actually require a lot more steps in the permitting process for everybody? Or do you try and isolate it to the kinds of projects where it would make sense and then have the Landis Review Board and district coordinators and people working with the applicants on the front end? And as I recall, the conversation was, let's make sure that the applicants know at the front end and that the district coordinators are helping them right out of the gate, but that the land use review board's preference was not to make it automatic because that would mean that all applicants are then going through a Stony Brook application. And that may make it actually more onerous permitting process versus trying to identify. And I believe the the Land Use Review Board wanted to kind of look at modifying one of their rules in order to find some more ways to advance Stony Brook for these for these processors. And so that's my understanding. I'm not here with a hard position on this. I think you you other than I think you really need to hear from the land use review board and the other stakeholders as far as, I think, how to how to to get Stony Brook right, but that was my recollection of the conversation. It would be helpful to me if there are other other legislative items that you're looking at, and I can try and and offer an opinion. But I focus mostly on what was in the memo that relate to the legislative changes.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair, House Committee on Environment and Energy)]: I think that's been our focus as well. And interesting to hear you suggest that Stony Brook, which is just a word we're still trying to understand what the implications are, that that might entail more work on the applicant's part in some cases where we wouldn't want that. I mean, we hope the whole intent here is to streamline and make things easier for applicants, not at the risk of causing harm somewhere else.

[Jamie (Audubon Vermont)]: Yeah, from what I recall, was broad agreement that Stony Brook makes sense. It's just a question of how to apply it, how to make and so aware of it, how to have the technical assistance to do the review to understand what land would be covered under Stony Brook.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair, House Committee on Environment and Energy)]: The board did come in and give us a high level overview of the work and of the report, and they're coming back in tomorrow at our request to dig into this a little bit more. So that's helpful to hear your take on it.

[Jamie (Audubon Vermont)]: Yeah. Mean, in general, I think that, you know, I I know after reading a report that we I felt like the report did a really good job. And so I think, you know, trying to implement what's what's in the report makes a lot of sense. And if you're, you know, going to add on policies, then then, yeah, I'll continue to to look at them and try and understand them as best as possible.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair, House Committee on Environment and Energy)]: Anybody have any questions? Go ahead, Tim. Jamie, we talk a

[Rep. Tim Roper (Member)]: lot about IPM and this committee with legislation like on rodenticides or neonics.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair, House Committee on Environment and Energy)]: Would Audubon be interested in coming to

[Rep. Tim Roper (Member)]: us at some point and saying birds and bats are part of that toolbox as it relates to acne.

[Jamie (Audubon Vermont)]: We're meeting tomorrow to discuss the rodenticide bill. And I know I think in Connecticut, Autobahn was part of an effort there to try and address rodenticides. And so we really wanna understand, you know, what's what's the best way. Obviously, we're we we supported the the neonic bill and were a little bit concerned with the rule as far as or maybe very concerned with the question of did it really just shift to voluntary best management practices when I think our understanding was that they would have a stronger implementation effect. So, yeah, these are issues that are of interest to us. And so I'll be working with the team to figure out how best we can we can integrate with your conversations.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: We have a paraquat bill. What's that? We have a paraquat bill today. Okay.

[Jamie (Audubon Vermont)]: I'll make note of that.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair, House Committee on Environment and Energy)]: We have a paraquat bill that is a short form bill. I think there's a companion bill in the Senate that's long form and it has actual language. And I don't know whether that's moving or whether we'll be able to take up this bill, but that be helpful if we do, if you had a perspective you wanted to share.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: Okay, great.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair, House Committee on Environment and Energy)]: Any other questions? Good. Well, thank you for coming in. Nice to see you again.

[Jamie (Audubon Vermont)]: Yeah. Thank you.

[Rep. Amy Sheldon (Chair, House Committee on Environment and Energy)]: Yep. Let's committee, let's take a

[Jamie (Audubon Vermont)]: short