Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: And then, yeah, if you want to introduce yourself just for the record, and then we can go ahead and get started.

[Tim Kayhart (Kayhart Brothers Dairy; Board Member, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: Okay. Yeah. My name is Tim Cahart, dairy farm in Addison with my my while my parents are still kicking around when it's not 10 below zero. With my brother down there and my daughter, my nephew. We've milked around 1,500 cows, crop 3,200 acres. I've been on the board of directors for the Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition since the beginning in 2013. Co chair the position now with Brian Kemp. Just take a second to read our mission statement, if you will, real quickly. The Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition assists all farmers in implementing innovative agricultural practices that enhance water quality, soil health, climate smart farming, and their economic resiliency in the Champlain Valley. We accomplish this through a positive unified voice that provides targeted education outreach to farmers and the public advocates on behalf of farmers, environmental interests and collaborates the community partners to achieve common goals. Since our inception, we've worked tirelessly to grow our membership, participate in difficult conversations around agriculture, water quality, soil health, and climate, and educate each other in our communities. Just, you know, thank for the opportunity to come up here today and meet you all and let you know that we, you know, want to be involved in the process. We want our voices to be heard. We want to play a key role in things that come true that affect basically our businesses and our ability to be profitable. We're all very well aware of all the pressures that are are put on from all different angles. See, I don't know what more to really get into on that. Brian and I both sit on with Richard on the stakeholders, CAFO thing that's happening now. Lots of tough discussions happening there all the time. And hope that at at the end of the day ends up, we come up with something good out of it. I don't know. That's kind of all that I really have to say

[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: personally. Right. Let's see. First, thank you, Chuck, And for thank you for serving on that stakeholder group too. Richard, Representative Nelson has been keeping us up to date on that. I know you've been meeting quite a bit, or so it seems, because he's been absent quite a bit, and that's how we track it. That there's some deadlines coming up, so Yeah. Good luck with that. Yeah. Any questions for Tim?

[Unidentified Committee Member]: You also farm on the other side of the lake? Yes, we do. Does this group also have, it's not really jurisdiction, but you have

[Brian Kemp (Co-Chair, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition; Dairy Farmer)]: to work with New York State then too?

[Tim Kayhart (Kayhart Brothers Dairy; Board Member, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: No, I don't really do much work with the state of New York as far as regulatory processes or record keeping. Everything that we do is within the state of Vermont that uses my land base there for the nutrients that we produce in Vermont.

[Brian Kemp (Co-Chair, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition; Dairy Farmer)]: It's a little bit of

[Tim Kayhart (Kayhart Brothers Dairy; Board Member, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: a gray area sometimes, you know, divided by a bridge and a piece of water. But I'd like to think that everything that we're doing on the Vermont side certainly holds peace to what happens on the New York side. So it's unfortunate. Sometimes I feel like it's we'll do practices or will like I have a no till drill that I you know, I might drill in 300 acres of cover crops in New York State that affects the quality of the water of the lake just the same as it does on this side. But it's not captured by anyone or knows anybody in the state of Vermont really care about it.

[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: Because there's good over there. Yeah. So does anybody in the state of New York care

[Brian Kemp (Co-Chair, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition; Dairy Farmer)]: about that?

[Tim Kayhart (Kayhart Brothers Dairy; Board Member, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: Well, we've gotten involved a little bit with Essex County soil and water with some funds that they have to help pay for some practices that are over there. Pretty limited. You know, there's no real teeth to it, and that's okay too. But they came and approached us and knew that we were probably one of the bigger land operators over there and they wanted to talk to us. Yeah.

[Unidentified Committee Member (forestry background; NEK reference)]: Richard. Thank you. Do does your group have membership from farmers on the other side of the pond?

[Tim Kayhart (Kayhart Brothers Dairy; Board Member, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: Not that I'm aware of. No.

[Brian Kemp (Co-Chair, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition; Dairy Farmer)]: No. So you're wholly solely Vermont based? We we pretty much represent Addison, Chittenden, and Rutland Counties. There there is one or two members over the hill on the East Side, but very limited because you know you have Connecticut. Primary watershed alliance are there and to the North FWA. Yeah. So it's it's pretty predominantly Addison County's that we represent. Can you say your name for the record? I'm sorry. Brian Cina, co chair of the County Planning Valley Farmer Coalition. And

[Unidentified Committee Member (forestry background; NEK reference)]: do you work with like the citizens advocacy?

[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: CAC. That's it. The Champlain The Champlain Basin, Lake Champlain Basin. I mean,

[Brian Kemp (Co-Chair, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition; Dairy Farmer)]: we have dialogue at times. You know, I think one of our directors, Eric Clifford, is on the Lake Champlain Citizens Advisory.

[Unidentified Committee Member (forestry background; NEK reference)]: Yes. It's Citizens Advisory.

[Brian Kemp (Co-Chair, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition; Dairy Farmer)]: So Eric Clifford represent is a representative on that board, I believe, still to this day. I know he has been for a long time.

[Unidentified Committee Member (forestry background; NEK reference)]: They they can they came into this committee two weeks ago. I don't know. It's a blur. Yeah. But they they really championed the work that agriculture has done for a year. They really did. They they're And and eager to help us achieve more. Matter of fact, they talked about we need a clear funded source

[Rep. Gregory "Greg" Burtt (Member)]: to help us do more work.

[Unidentified Committee Member (forestry background; NEK reference)]: It's positive.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: Can any farmer be part of it who's in the sort of Champlain Watershed? You know, I always was amazed that Rodney Graham used to be here in Williamstown in Orange County. That's part of the Champlain Watershed.

[Kate Longfield (Executive Director, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: We do have members up in Franklin County that are members of CBFC because they want to be involved and engaged in our newsletters and our events. We work really closely with the other watershed groups. And so try to bolster their events so we get a good word out. But yeah, anyone in Vermont can be a member and we have like well over 500 people who are engaged pretty regularly with our newsletters. And these are just people interested in and wanting to be engaged in agriculture. And we've got over 130 active farmer members and business sponsors. And it's a diverse farmer membership. We have bee farmers and small goat dairies and vegetable farms and flower farms and big crop farms, organic dairies, conventional. So it's really like livestock farm. We're trying to really broaden and represent all farms in the Champlain Valley.

[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: Kate, could you also say your name? Yes. Longfield,

[Kate Longfield (Executive Director, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: executive director.

[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: And then we don't need to be too formal, but did you guys wanna switch places? Did you have anything else you wanted to say? No, I'm fine. You wanna?

[Kate Longfield (Executive Director, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: Yeah. But, yeah, we we thought this would

[Kate Longfield (Executive Director, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: be a cool opportunity to talk about So our water quality program is really robust. We are doing a lot of on farm technical assistance visits, helping farms implement and expand a range of conservation practices, helping them enroll in different conservation programs and recording the conservation practices from those conservation programs. We have it since 2022 spearheaded a project in collaboration with the agency of agriculture, because we are funded through the AG CWIP program. We are going around and meeting with farmers and recording farmers self funded or farmer funded conservation practices, which otherwise, if I'm not going with my farm database and I'm meeting with them and looking at the different fields and conservation practices that are being implemented, then I go out and field verify those practices to make sure they're actually happening on the land. If we are not doing that work for the farmer funded practices, those corresponding nutrient reductions that end up getting sent to EPA and get recorded towards the TMDL are not getting captured and they are effectively lost. All of the conservation practices that are funded through the state and federal programs automatically get captured and recorded and the corresponding nutrients, nutrient reductions get reported. But farmers are implementing. So I just in one of the documents I'd sent, I personally have been you know, I work closely with 24 of our farmers. It's 24 out of, you know, hundreds of farmers that we work with, that I even work with. And just since 2022, I've recorded 13,000 acres of conservation practices that this these numbers, like, barely scratch the surface of what is actually happening in the Champlain Valley alone, let alone all of Vermont. Farmers are aren't you know, some farmers are enrolled in these conservation programs and are eager to continue. But also the programs only fund so many of their practices. A lot of their practices go well beyond what the programs will cover. But a lot of farmers are, you know, I know you both can speak to this and all of our board members, I think, can speak to this, that there are plenty of conservation practices that they are implementing on their own dime because they know it is a good practice, because the practice works. It has benefited their soil quality. They've seen it work on their land. It's benefiting their their economic operation. Like, it's it's just the right thing to do, and they are self funding that. And we need to like, it's just nobody's talking about it, but we need to record those conservation practices because that's actually happening on the ground.

[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: So so you're capturing it. If the farmers are doing it, you're capturing it. Then is it is that information being

[Kate Longfield (Executive Director, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: So that I automatically put it into the same agency of agriculture, the big partner database that that you know, all the the program practices get inputted in. That all gets sent to A and R and then eventually the EPA. But I'm just want you know, we've we've got a small but mighty team, but we just we want more of that work happening because that's farmer's story. That is, yeah.

[Rep. Gregory "Greg" Burtt (Member)]: I just wanted to say for clarification, you're saying unless you reported that, it wouldn't know.

[Kate Longfield (Executive Director, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: It doesn't get reported. So when you see the stats of like, farmers are helping to reduce phosphorus input into the lake by blank percent, none of the farmer funded practices are part of that yet, or only if a couple people. I think we are the leading organization doing this work, which would mean that I am the leading person doing this work, and that's a little nerve racking.

[Kate Longfield (Executive Director, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: I'm doing a

[Kate Longfield (Executive Director, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: lot, but not enough.

[Brian Kemp (Co-Chair, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition; Dairy Farmer)]: Kate's been instrumental in database work. It's like program, formerly as a program director, she took the initiative and has been doing

[Unidentified Committee Member (forestry background; NEK reference)]: that groundwork.

[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: Now, somebody is still doing it?

[Kate Longfield (Executive Director, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: So I'm going continue doing it. I am stepping, I've stepped into the executive director role, we have an amazing, one of my colleagues, Sean Goodfellow, is gonna continue doing that work with me. Hopefully, but yeah, I might end up having to do a little bit less because I'm now in this ED role.

[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: Do you have any insight into whether the other, like you mentioned, Connecticut River, has a different issue, In other parts of the state, is it It's not somebody doing

[Kate Longfield (Executive Director, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: happening very much because there's a lot of other things to be meeting with farmers about and just getting farmers to implement more conservation practices. But again, if you're not actually recording those corresponding nutrient reductions, like we want that work

[Unidentified Committee Member (forestry background; NEK reference)]: to happen, but we also need

[Kate Longfield (Executive Director, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: to capture it. But yes, no. Like you would think like, you know, we'd we'd hope that UVM extension eventually would be doing it in the other watershed groups. They I know the Connecticut River Watershed Group isn't doing it, but I, you know, I just was on the phone with Mike Snow and saying, this it's not that hard. Like, this is what this is my process, and you should be doing it too. Yeah.

[Unidentified Committee Member (forestry background; NEK reference)]: Appreciate it. Thank you. How many cups of coffee

[Brian Kemp (Co-Chair, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition; Dairy Farmer)]: do you drink

[Tim Kayhart (Kayhart Brothers Dairy; Board Member, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: this morning? I'm glad

[Unidentified Committee Member (forestry background; NEK reference)]: to see that you're so passionate about it. And up up north in the Metamagog Watershed, we we don't have a group like this. Yeah. And but we work with our conservation district. And and they help to report some of these things, but this is a message I will take to their next meeting about making sure. So you're talking things like injection of manure, no till Cover

[Kate Longfield (Executive Director, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: crops.

[Kate Longfield (Executive Director, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: Cover crops. Issues. Grazing.

[Unidentified Committee Member (forestry background; NEK reference)]: Reduced tillage fee like on our farm, you know, we received the the $10,000. Right. And we don't use it for the total expense of no till. We use it a 100% to buy seed and and the labor and the fuel and the wear and tear is on our dime. So we expand the nut and and and

[Brian Kemp (Co-Chair, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition; Dairy Farmer)]: then

[Unidentified Committee Member (forestry background; NEK reference)]: we beat the hell out of the person selling us the seed to get an extra ton, you know, so we can cover more ground.

[Kate Longfield (Executive Director, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: That's so that's exactly what we're talking about.

[Brian Kemp (Co-Chair, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition; Dairy Farmer)]: And that's the exact example of some of the larger farms. I mean, that the FAP program is a great program. We need to keep funding it. It increased a couple of years ago, think to 10,000 from 80, which was good, but on a larger farm, if you're a cover crop in six, seven hundred acres of corn ground or more, it doesn't even buy a seed. At that point, farmers are going above and beyond buying the extra seed, they're covering the acres, you know, the seed program through the state of Vermont capital equipment assistance is a great program. It's helping buy these no till drills, both corny and small grain drills to put it implement this. So they're all great programs. We need to keep funding and and conservation districts. UBM, they all need the funding to help implement this in it and I think you know in the areas like yourself, think the conservation districts are trying to do it against personnel, Having enough personnel to do it. But it is as Kate says, know without us giving it to the EPA, they're not getting the big picture. They're getting what's funded from NRCS and from the state being or FAP programs. But there's a lot of other acres and a lot of practices that are happening that we don't get credit for if we don't put it in that database. Yeah.

[Unidentified Committee Member (forestry background; NEK reference)]: Perfect. And Lipsky. Yes. Thank you. I'm a big fan. Kate, I'm really from the forestry sector, and when we cruise land, it was always on foot. They now use drones and this infrared and all sorts of weird new technologies. But covering 3,300 acres, do you travel on foot, horseback, 83? You can't ride a drone.

[Kate Longfield (Executive Director, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: I drive usually between the farm fields. Yeah. I've sold sampled every now and then on ATV, but I don't know if we'll reveal it.

[Tim Kayhart (Kayhart Brothers Dairy; Board Member, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: Like, Richard, know, how many cups of coffee? Kate is a major

[Kate Longfield (Executive Director, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: I'm everywhere.

[Tim Kayhart (Kayhart Brothers Dairy; Board Member, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: No. Go. Go. Go. Super organized, super enthusiastic.

[Kate Longfield (Executive Director, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: I just I really care about this organization, and I hope that you all do too. Like, this we really represent a lot of farmers in Vermont.

[Unidentified Committee Member (forestry background; NEK reference)]: Or your data collection for.

[Kate Longfield (Executive Director, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: Yeah. You'd be blown away. Like, you really would be blown away how many acres of conservation practices are actually happening in Vermont. And I just want we want to tell that story for farmers. And we want if we're really gonna rely on this data, if we're gonna look and see for the TMDL, what percent is ag reducing, what percent is, you know, our municipality. Like, we want that data to actually reflect what's happening on the ground, and I really don't think it is yet.

[Unidentified Committee Member (forestry background; NEK reference)]: The last thing is there's this program sponsored by monumentfarm.com. Are you Is this the stars on that?

[Kate Longfield (Executive Director, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: No. I'm not. Tim is.

[Brian Kemp (Co-Chair, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition; Dairy Farmer)]: Been a great job. Yeah.

[Kate Longfield (Executive Director, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: We've been watching it.

[Brian Kemp (Co-Chair, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition; Dairy Farmer)]: That's a you know, they did get some grants to work with them for that intensive medium. That is just phenomenal. That's what we have to do. We have to tell a story and everybody tells us. You're a great job. And that's, there's five more, there's two hours, five more coming out.

[Tim Kayhart (Kayhart Brothers Dairy; Board Member, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: The first one started with my mom and dad, or my dad has lost both his arms on He's that the guy that knew when he was this tall, he wanted to be a dairy farmer, and what he says in a lot of those episodes that are still to come, he's like, he's doing what he absolutely loves

[Unidentified Committee Member (forestry background; NEK reference)]: to do every day. That was clear. Yes. And they are doing that for forestry as well.

[Brian Kemp (Co-Chair, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition; Dairy Farmer)]: I understand that, yeah. Which is great, because as we all know, it's more forest than there is I'm going, right?

[Unidentified Committee Member (forestry background; NEK reference)]: Or if anyone absent a crystal. Yeah.

[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: Yeah. Yeah. Representative Burtt.

[Rep. Gregory "Greg" Burtt (Member)]: Yeah. Well, I I was curious, you know, with all these practices and changes that you've made that you've implemented over time for water quality and whatnot. I know part of the idea behind that is, and you alluded to that was telling your story, that what's it look like in terms of relationships with neighbors with regard to that, that's not something you can put data on necessarily, but as you are implementing these things, are people understanding what you're doing? Are they showing appreciation? What's that then?

[Tim Kayhart (Kayhart Brothers Dairy; Board Member, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: I would say that I received positive feedback from neighbors on it, The manure injection in the fall stuff, they're acting corporation, but there's still like, that's a, you know, we all know, or at least I would think most people would know, that's a tricky line that we're all walking in today's times with neighbors and people that we all live alongside. I would hope that most people take it very seriously in that it does matter what your relationships are with your neighbor. And they know that you care about where they live also, but at the same time that they understand what goes into what we do. And there's a compromise there of our ability to run and maintain a business that is profitable and viable for future generations to come, that we want to do the right thing for the environment too. And I think that that's something that I feel falls on an individual farm and every farm is going to be a little bit different, and there are situations that happen that are unfortunate. That we all are part of that story too, we want it to be or not. So I think that's a real challenge, if you will, for us all to navigate our neighbors and to, you know, have conversations or phone calls just out of respect to people that we rent from or people that we farm by. Hey, we're gonna, just to let you know, there's gonna be a person up there with an ATV today gathering soil samples that we have to collect on an annual basis for part of our nutrient management plan. And so just keeping them informed of activities that are happening is critical. Know, they can only inform so many people about what we do, but yeah, our neighbors are important, no doubt. You,

[Brian Kemp (Co-Chair, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition; Dairy Farmer)]: Jed

[Unidentified Committee Member (forestry background; NEK reference)]: brought up the Monument for our speech and I want to take this time to publicly thank the Vermont Dairy Promotion Council for agreeing to help fund that and give the grant to Vermont Dairy Producers Alliance that is telling our story and your parents are so powerful and that them and I'm forever grateful and it's sometimes it's hard for us to talk about our story.

[Brian Kemp (Co-Chair, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition; Dairy Farmer)]: Yeah.

[Unidentified Committee Member (forestry background; NEK reference)]: Because it is such deep meaning to us and people don't understand if we pray even we're a staff, you know, and because we get to do what we wanna do and that's feed people.

[Brian Kemp (Co-Chair, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition; Dairy Farmer)]: Yeah.

[Unidentified Committee Member (forestry background; NEK reference)]: You know? So I I'm very thankful for the Voluntary Convention Council, and hopefully, they're appreciative of the work we're doing that has been done and we can continue working and having some of our story being told here in our state.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: I just wonder about the conversations you must have with all the sort of participating sort of data collectors out there.

[Brian Kemp (Co-Chair, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition; Dairy Farmer)]: When you

[Unidentified Committee Member]: think of like the EPA, the NRCS, the agency here, UVM Extension, the Conservation Districts, and then they all just sort of say, well, thanks for doing what you're doing. But it also makes me think that everybody must realize that this is sort of just by the grace of God, a strange one off. Nobody's saying we should be doing this. Think they're out to a group like you or figure out how to institutionalize it so that Memphremagogue is being done or the Connecticut is being done too.

[Kate Longfield (Executive Director, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: All these different partner organizations I work with farmers, I would say most of them have access to the Vermont Agricultural Partner database. And that is it's a map. It has all the farms in Vermont and, and all the farm fields and what practices are happening on what field. It's a great database, and that is where we are inputting. So we so I coordinate with the other groups on visits. We want to make sure we're coordinating. So one farm isn't getting reached out to by all these different service providers in the same week. And that is where I'm inputting the data on the self funded practices. And so I think it's like it's absolutely possible. I just think that, you know, all these other service providers are busy trying to get farmers implementing or expanding conservation practices and helping people like there's just a lot of, you know, service providers are really busy. And so but but I do think it will be very possible. Like, I I'm trying to get I even I try to I call, you know, Sony Howlett at the agency of Ag and try to troubleshoot, like, how could we actually implement this on a large scale? Like, could you know, I know we'd need an outside person to field verify practices, but could farmers input You don't wanna make farmers do anything else, could farmers sort of self report and then I field verify. Yeah, we're trying to get creative and find ways to get that data input. Yeah.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: What's the data psychology?

[Kate Longfield (Executive Director, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: It's the Vermont partner database. There's a link to it on

[Tim Kayhart (Kayhart Brothers Dairy; Board Member, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: If you

[Kate Longfield (Executive Director, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: Google the Vermont part like Ag partner database, it's an amazing resource and it makes my job possible because I can coordinate with these other service providers and I can look at, you know, when I go for a farm visit, I can see, okay, K Heart is enrolled in the seed program and the FAP program, and I'm going to check for this. And it's an amazing database, but there's more that can be done.

[Brian Kemp (Co-Chair, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition; Dairy Farmer)]: It's been in the works now for five to six years since Yeah. It We've just been lucky to have the personnel staffing make it as successful as we have. And I think other organizations probably would really like to enter more, it's just challenging to have, you know, the staff and personnel to do it.

[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: This is a bigger organization, you had more members than the other? We might

[Brian Kemp (Co-Chair, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition; Dairy Farmer)]: be the larger farmer watershed alliance, if you call

[Kate Longfield (Executive Director, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: us. The farmers watershed alliance in Franklin County and then the Connecticut River Watershed Farms Alliance.

[Brian Kemp (Co-Chair, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition; Dairy Farmer)]: We probably have a few more members than them. FWA has been in longer existence than us. They did this probably ten or twelve years before we did. You know, and again, different demographics, different, you know, mindsets, I mean, but we can all collaborate together and we've come to a lot of air with the unified voice in the past and, you know, sent letters to different committees supporting things. I think the thing, the other thing that I'd like to stress is we're here. We want to be a source. You know, bills come through your committee, we've testified in the past numerous times, We want to be involved. We want to have a voice. We want to be able to share our input and our stories with you too and help help direct that. We were instrumental in the RAPs we feel, and you know, as Tim said, working with this group, he and I and one of our other directors, It is challenging. With that, you know, there's a lot of things that may have to be corrected to meet the federal level, and it's going to need money. There's going to have to be money. I mean, as Tim pointed out, and Richard knows very well the milk prices, what they are. And some of these structure improvements are hundreds of thousands of dollar projects. You know, they're not 10,015 thousand dollars in all cases. Some are easy quick fixes, but most of those have been done. So as we move down this path, you know, I think it's critical that somehow we've been told that state of New York has like a property transfer tax that helps fund some of that that goes towards these water quality things. I don't know if that's something that we ponder in Vermont somehow, but I know there's a lot of challenges with that and a lot of obstacles, but somewhere there needs to be a lot of dollars, I think coming forward for improvements. It's scary as a farmer to know the unknowns. As we deal with this, we've built relationships with the agency of Ag. I think for the most part, farmers are pretty happy how things have gone with our LFOs and NFOs and SFOs. And now here we are, you know, at a crossroads and we're trying to figure out the future. And I don't know if we'll come up with a perfect solution for everybody. Yeah, well. But Mr. Optimistic. Yeah. But I just would like to say, you know, we're here as a source. We will come to Mount Belier. We will testify. We've done it on Zoom through COVID. We could still do that, obviously. So don't be afraid to reach out to us, and we appreciate the opportunity to have a voice. Didn't mean to, speaking of having a voice,

[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: not invite you to come up and be officially at the end of the table if you want to.

[Kate Longfield (Executive Director, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: He was the only

[Kate Longfield (Executive Director, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: one sitting in the chair in

[Kate Longfield (Executive Director, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: the Okay.

[Brian Kemp (Co-Chair, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition; Dairy Farmer)]: Yeah, it's just, you know, we want to be involved and be at the table. We appreciate all the past invites that we've had over the years and just want to articulate that we want to be here for the whole world.

[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: Thank you for that.

[Unidentified Committee Member (forestry background; NEK reference)]: I appreciate it.

[Kate Longfield (Executive Director, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: I want to mention the Jackie Folsom news.

[Brian Kemp (Co-Chair, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition; Dairy Farmer)]: Yeah, many of you know Jackie Folsom, I'm sure, and we've put her on a retainer for the legislative session to give us a weekly update and report. Not talking to us, she's not speaking for us. She's just the eyes and the ears up here, so we don't have anybody that can be here every day. And it's a good source for us to, you know, she's gonna every Friday evening, we get an update and you should pay attention to this bill or you may want to be up at this committee and we can reach out and say, yeah, we'd like to come testify or like I say, our contacts will be shared.

[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: Reach out to us. We haven't asked and invited any of the watershed alliance groups, and this is putting you on the spot a little bit, but we've been taking testimony on the municipal regulation of agriculture question. And I see you nodding your heads anyway, so you may know what we're talking about. If you have any thoughts, Happy to hear them, you know, now or at some point later.

[Brian Kemp (Co-Chair, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition; Dairy Farmer)]: I mean, aware of it personally. I haven't dived into it. Guess just my 10,000 foot level is I think it should stay as it is. I don't think there's a much As hot

[Unidentified Committee Member (forestry background; NEK reference)]: it was. As it was. Yeah. Right now the is, is what we're working on getting it back to the was. Okay, the was thing. Right.

[Brian Kemp (Co-Chair, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition; Dairy Farmer)]: You see, don't, but don't think the municipalities individually should be governing, you know, ag zones. Think there could be a lot of challenges there.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: John? I I just wondered I mean, usually it's water issues you're collecting data on, but with ACT 181 coming, I just wondered about prime ag soils too, and you're sort of tracking this whole challenge and coming collision between farming and needs like housing and development.

[Kate Longfield (Executive Director, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: We've been following all of it. We really we focus on water quality, but we've been following everything related to agriculture and natural resources.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: If you have any thoughts on that,

[Kate Longfield (Executive Director, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: Again,

[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: these tiers we're going to deal

[Brian Kemp (Co-Chair, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition; Dairy Farmer)]: it's for us to keep track of, we've been following, but to be, I haven't read all the language there, so I'm a little uncomfortable. But, know, prime ag soil, I feel should be prime ag soil. But on the other hand, if you have a firearm that's no one's there to take it on and they wanna sell some land for a certain purpose, Unfortunately, as much as we need to add a community hate to see it, know, should they be able to, I don't know, it's a tough one.

[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: Right, did you have more? If you want to share, all right. Anything else Brian that you wanted to bring up or?

[Brian Kemp (Co-Chair, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition; Dairy Farmer)]: No, think we pretty much covered it. The only other plug I would give while we're here is, you know, we work very closely with Extension in Addison County and hopefully the Conservation District, the Otter Creek Conservation District has got some new people. We're a little remiss for many years without strong conservation district in Otter Creek, but we're hoping for that to revive. And so as money's discussions come through, it's, you know, those are two very important organizations for us to support. And, you know, UVM in general is great, but I don't think a lot of money funnels down to the extension that and and again, the conservation districts. So, as those discussions come through later in the year, if they're not already, it's, I think, important to us to have that support from those organizations also.

[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: We we had the federal delegation or representatives from the from senators Walton Sanders and Becca Vallon's office yesterday to just give us an update from Washington. Then we were able to give them some feedback. One of the things that has come up again and again when we're talking about how to help our farmers is a package of aid money, that $31,000,000 is the number that I think we've sort of we were remembering that it's been approved and it's waiting to be released. And it would go to farmers in the state who've experienced losses in calendar years, 'twenty three and 'twenty four. Obviously froth and heavy froth that was earlier that year and whenever other weather events. So that, I don't know if that's something you've been following, but we are and the agency is working on that. But it's just been a challenge to pry it

[Brian Kemp (Co-Chair, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition; Dairy Farmer)]: loose. So earlier in this fall, Senator Welch came to the Addison County and we had that discussion and told us that that money was being appropriated. Of course, at the time it was the government shutdown. And I guess my comment to him without trying to be rude was that's great. That was from two years ago. If we don't get money for farmers to buy feed this winter, those cows won't be here two years from now. And that's the struggle we see and obviously none of us can control that, especially at the federal level, but I said to Anson and said, know, if the state can do anything, it needs to be quicker than two years from now. You know, challenges are real. Mean, I I've got guys telling us that we traditionally have sold feed in past, we're looking for feed. We were organic and these organic farmers right now cannot find feed. I mean, I had one that actually forgot about NOFA because if we hit a dead end of NOFA, he wrote to National Organic NOP himself and said, look, I know a fireman is certified organic feed from two years ago that has been covered and secured. I need feed for 200 Felton cows. And they turned him down. So, you know, but he has the money, you know, he's a good farmer and he's he a can't feed. We hear stories of feed came in from Ohio, Pennsylvania, but even now those resources. So when this money comes around, if it's two years from now, I don't know what really it's gonna do.

[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: So we can Missouri and complain about the federal government all we want. Just talking about it, somebody's listening and they'll register that. But statewide, we have cleared out of the house anyway, and it's back in the senate, the relief fund that, in theory, if we can also put some money into it, would get money right away out to farmers as things happen. And so in your conversations you're having with Senate folks, think they're taking it up this week and hopefully we can move that forward.

[Unidentified Committee Member (forestry background; NEK reference)]: That's interesting. Richard? Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. And to that end, the organic reimbursement Yeah. I I'm not familiar with it. I'm sure you were, but anyways, that's been held up as well.

[Brian Kemp (Co-Chair, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition; Dairy Farmer)]: Yep.

[Unidentified Committee Member (forestry background; NEK reference)]: And, you know, normally That money comes out July or August. Yep. And I asked NOFA when they were here about getting restrictions lifted. You know, they gave him the they looked into pasture restriction. I said, great. So they started eating their winter feed in September. Yeah. And it didn't have much of it anyway, you know, and they've asked the national organic NOP or whatever they are about lifting restrictions. They won't have of it, and I'm familiar with that. I've heard about that pile of feed you had that was put up organically, and then when your status was changed, they even changed what was already there. Yeah.

[Brian Kemp (Co-Chair, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition; Dairy Farmer)]: They won't accept it without another new certification, which is ridiculous because we all know it was organic. And, you know, we don't need to go through another certification.

[Unidentified Committee Member (forestry background; NEK reference)]: It is it is is that would that come from just NOFA? That would come from the Vermont local group? Yes. So they have the power to waive that certification?

[Brian Kemp (Co-Chair, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition; Dairy Farmer)]: If I if we were this new entity, Heffernanos, was to ask fill out an organic certification and go through the whole process of inspection again. With a cost. With a cost. Yeah.

[Unidentified Committee Member (forestry background; NEK reference)]: And meanwhile, you have conventional farmers that like access to that same pile of feed I'm sure. Yes.

[Brian Kemp (Co-Chair, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition; Dairy Farmer)]: So what's easier? Yeah, unfortunately for the for the organic

[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: farmer we most likely will end

[Brian Kemp (Co-Chair, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition; Dairy Farmer)]: up selling this conventional feed to a conventional farm.

[Unidentified Committee Member (forestry background; NEK reference)]: And you know your group you represent all farmers without politics. Yeah.

[Brian Kemp (Co-Chair, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition; Dairy Farmer)]: I mean, I was an organic beef I know you. For eighteen years and was the president of this organization for talent. So, you know, without without scrutiny, everybody's got to be together and support each other, know, in the ag community, whether we're supporting,

[Unidentified Committee Member (forestry background; NEK reference)]: know, Jamie and yeah, or 10 ks. Thank you.

[Kate Longfield (Executive Director, Champlain Valley Farmer Coalition)]: Thank you.

[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: Nice conversation. And we will reach out when things come up. Are gonna take a short break and be back right at 11:30 because we need to go over another bill, and I wanna be sure that we haven't forgiven that enough time. What was this?