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[Rep. Richard Nelson (Ranking Member)]: Big button pusher in more ways than one.
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: So we've got at 03:00 on the floor or maybe not right at three, but on the floor today, S60 is coming up for action. And there is, as we saw yesterday, an amendment that came from the Appropriations Committee. It's actually a series of, it's not a strike all of it, 10 different instances of amendment, mostly technical, changing some language, which we talked about, and then giving the dollar amount and putting in the language that basically sets the program on the up when there's money involved. So Tom Stevens will report on that? Yes. Tom, representative Stevens reports on that after representative Bos-Lun kicks off the conversation with the bill of court, which I know she's been working very hard on. And then it'll come back to Michelle to confirm that our committee heard the amendment or is aware of the amendment and that we took a straw poll and had a vote. So let's go ahead and let me just get a motion then we can discuss. There
[Unidentified Committee Member]: was a message on a text thread when we had sent people out that said if you send a Zoom link, I'll join. I would assume that might be representative Burtt. Did he get
[Rep. Michelle Bos-Lun]: his Zoom link? Yes, he did. He is back in. Okay.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: Because he might because that way we can call him back Yeah.
[Rep. Michelle Bos-Lun]: I don't know what happened after that, think he's in a place with four signal parties.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: We can hold it open for him like for the hour or something, right?
[Jed Lipsky (Clerk)]: Yeah,
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: and on straw bowls there may be different. But anyway, if connect with them in the next minute or two, then we can do that. Thank you for catching that. Anyway, need a motion. Yeah. Motion to
[Unidentified Committee Member]: accept. Support the. Find favorable the amendment of Thank the
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: you, thanks Michelle. She's obviously been thinking about this. Find that amendment Yeah, so we don't need a second, and move to any discussion. It's inappropriate for us
[Rep. Richard Nelson (Ranking Member)]: to get up and grill our own member. Even
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: if
[Rep. Michelle Bos-Lun]: Yes, it is.
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: It's for appropriations, probably. You've stood up once this week. Mr. Chairman. And I just wanted to say before we take our Piyadh Lipsky question, that before you arrive, you've got a shout out during that
[Jed Lipsky (Clerk)]: previous presentation over your Over your announcement. Yeah, part
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: of the school,
[John L. Bartholomew (Vice Chair)]: Bob. Thank you.
[Jed Lipsky (Clerk)]: I didn't hear in the motion the name or title of amendment or bill.
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: Okay. Could you restate that?
[Unidentified Committee Member]: We're going to vote on if we approve the amendment of the appropriations committee to s 60.
[Jed Lipsky (Clerk)]: That's the number of bill, but what is the title of it?
[Unidentified Committee Member]: The Farm and Forestry Operations Security Special Fund bill.
[Jed Lipsky (Clerk)]: Thank you. You're welcome.
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: Unstopples, there's no The title for
[Rep. John O'Brien]: the active voting either. Like, if Greg had been like, I know what it is, it's not going to
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: change, I support it, and leave the building. I don't think we can do that with Well, we can't do that with a regular vote. I think we do have some more flexibility or if there has
[Rep. Michelle Bos-Lun]: I think we're allowed to vote three times remotely or something. I thought that was the new rule.
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: That's an added actual building vote as opposed to straw poll.
[Rep. Richard Nelson (Ranking Member)]: Here's a
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: favor of that. We're doing anything on question,
[Jed Lipsky (Clerk)]: chair. Would the type of vote be favorable with amendment? No. Just favorable. Yeah. You can just yeah. Even though it's an amendment.
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: Yes. Yeah. It was not
[Unidentified Committee Member]: our amendment. We're not further amendment. Right? We already voted for it in April for the other
[Jed Lipsky (Clerk)]: So it's package. Where it was fairly favorable. Yeah.
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: So I think that you, the clerk, may call the roll.
[Jed Lipsky (Clerk)]: Thank you. This roll is for the farm and forestry operations, but security time, the time is actually 01:16. 02:16. 02:16. Thank you. John L. Bartholomew, how are
[John L. Bartholomew (Vice Chair)]: you both? Yes. Michelle
[Rep. Michelle Bos-Lun]: Bos-one? Yes.
[Jed Lipsky (Clerk)]: Gregory Greg Burtt. Do we
[Rep. Michelle Bos-Lun]: have him online or on air? No. He's online, but I'm just asking Can
[Rep. Gregory "Greg" Burtt]: you hear me?
[Rep. Richard Nelson (Ranking Member)]: Yes. How do you vote, Greg? This is an absolute miracle vote right here. Did
[Rep. Gregory "Greg" Burtt]: not expect to get service. Yes. I vote. This is for s I didn't hear the beginning, Jed.
[Jed Lipsky (Clerk)]: Ask sixty farm and forestry operations special security fund.
[John L. Bartholomew (Vice Chair)]: Are you As
[Rep. Gregory "Greg" Burtt]: by appropriations. Yes.
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: Correct.
[Rep. Gregory "Greg" Burtt]: Yes. My my vote's yes on that.
[Jed Lipsky (Clerk)]: Jed Lipsky, yes. Richard Nelson? Yes. John O'Brien. Yes. Casey Toof is absent. Chairman David Durfee.
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: Yes.
[Jed Lipsky (Clerk)]: So the vote is seven zero one. Thank you. Representative Bos-Londe, floor report. And, Sharon, you have the rec Good. Action is still who do I submit it to?
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: You can just Pass that over to the.
[Rep. Richard Nelson (Ranking Member)]: It's running. Running, guys. We're harvesting.
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: Awesome, Greg. Awesome.
[Rep. Gregory "Greg" Burtt]: Just I hope the bylaws don't get me out here.
[Jed Lipsky (Clerk)]: The ordinance might, but not the bylaws.
[Rep. Gregory "Greg" Burtt]: Okay. Good.
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: Hands on the town.
[Rep. Richard Nelson (Ranking Member)]: Alright. Stay
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: with us. Stay with us, Greg. We're gonna do the other one if you if you've got a lot of questions.
[Rep. Gregory "Greg" Burtt]: Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. I'll I'll go off video.
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: Okay. So, yeah, we'll do this. Let's move ahead. Does
[Rep. Richard Nelson (Ranking Member)]: that have push
[Jed Lipsky (Clerk)]: another motion? It is Greg. Yeah.
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: So a motion I would like a motion then to sign on to the House Health Care Committee letter recommending that the budget adjustment include $167,700 for the Bridges to Health transition.
[Jed Lipsky (Clerk)]: But what is the title of this?
[Unidentified Committee Member]: What's he saying?
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: You can just, you can put down a few words here. Greatest, but now Yeah. Greatest to help. BAA. I really would capture it. So would anybody like to say so moved? We can say so moved. Okay. I've got your that's okay. Can't represent ourselves. Alright. Any So it's it's
[Rep. Richard Nelson (Ranking Member)]: asking It's support of letter from
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: House. House. So it's hearing the letter. Our name is in that letter. Just Yeah. So it's committee letter. Committee letter, yes. Or it's not house or something. It's on our page, so everybody can
[John L. Bartholomew (Vice Chair)]: see that. It is house, was it house healthcare? House healthcare, yeah.
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: And it's a house healthcare letter to appropriations. Yeah, sorry, I should get those details on the record again today. Any discussion of either procedural or
[Unidentified Committee Member]: I just want
[Rep. Michelle Bos-Lun]: clarify a question.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: Is this the final vote we're making? I thought you were gonna make one more about making recommendations about the other one that we talked about.
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: So we will have more conversation about other possible things that we might do, DAA related. But for now, this is a separate thing. This one is
[Rep. Michelle Bos-Lun]: by itself? Yeah. Okay. When
[Rep. John O'Brien]: a committee like yeah, are cc'd essentially in this, are they waiting for us to approve our piece of it, and then they would approve it?
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: I think they already approved it for pending our Oh, yes. I think they voted. I think they took a struggle yesterday.
[Jed Lipsky (Clerk)]: You said vote type for BAA or is it a committee bill?
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: Can write committee letter or maybe check off committee letter. Alright.
[Rep. John O'Brien]: Is there a wrong sheet or you have to write that in yourself?
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: Maybe not. Let's go ahead and color roll, Jed.
[Jed Lipsky (Clerk)]: John L. Bartholomew? Yes. Michelle Bos-Lun? Yes.
[Rep. Richard Nelson (Ranking Member)]: Gregory Greg Burtt?
[Rep. Gregory "Greg" Burtt]: Yes.
[Jed Lipsky (Clerk)]: Jed Lipsky, yes. Richard Nelson? Yes. John O'Brien? Yes. Casey Toof? Absent. Chairman David Durfee? Yes. Vote is 07:01, and the time is 02:22.
[Rep. Michelle Bos-Lun]: Thank you. Thank you for your ask a clarifying question.
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: Please.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: So in terms of our missing member who already submitted a letter of resignation, I understand he's not officially resigned from the house until Friday, but he did officially submit his letter. So do we still need to count him as one missing, even though he's already said that he's not planning to participate?
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: That's a great question. And I think the answer is yes. I asked
[John L. Bartholomew (Vice Chair)]: the court, she said until Friday when He's gonna try
[Unidentified Committee Member]: He still have to count it. Counts.
[John L. Bartholomew (Vice Chair)]: And after that, we'd be if he'd
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: And that would be seven zero five. Okay. Until Friday, he's
[Unidentified Committee Member]: Okay. Okay. Alright. Just making sure.
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: You know, I I was gonna say, let's check with the clerk. Yeah. Thanks.
[Rep. John O'Brien]: Okay.
[Rep. Richard Nelson (Ranking Member)]: And he almost came in today. And I told him if he didn't come up here, but he was in the well, I was gonna Something? No. I'm gonna I'm just gonna stand up and
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: tell you how our illustrious member was suspicious. We're missing from So he's not in the building.
[Jed Lipsky (Clerk)]: All session. I don't
[Rep. Richard Nelson (Ranking Member)]: believe he's gonna get over. Chair Derfee.
[Rep. John O'Brien]: House representative.
[Jed Lipsky (Clerk)]: Are you
[Rep. Gregory "Greg" Burtt]: are you all set with me for now?
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: Well, I'm just gonna actually, while while you're here and while other folks are here too, this will be a statement or two, and then there may be some discussion, but we'll pick it up again tomorrow. We were asked last week by the Vermont Food Bank to consider supporting their request, BAA requests for Vermonters feeding Vermonters. And then we just heard again, that's 1,500,000. And I've been asked, is our committee going to consider that? So I want to give the committee a chance to have a discussion about that and perhaps other requests, BA related requests that people might have heard. I don't think we've heard any in this committee officially, but I would want to double check that before I said so definitively. But anyway, Greg, so I just wanted to make sure you were aware of that. And if you have thoughts, we can talk about that tomorrow.
[Rep. Gregory "Greg" Burtt]: Okay. Yeah. I appreciate that. I'll they they were just they were just in committee just now?
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: We no. Not no. Not exactly. We just heard a presentation from the Food Security Roadmap Coalition, and they went through a number of things that we've done in the past that were helpful and that they appreciated, and then also listed some things that they hope you would consider for the future, and that was one of them.
[Rep. Gregory "Greg" Burtt]: Okay. Yeah. I will yeah. Let's talk tomorrow, and
[Jed Lipsky (Clerk)]: I'll Okay.
[Rep. Gregory "Greg" Burtt]: Get up to speed.
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: Alright. Good good luck out there. Have fun, Greg.
[Rep. Gregory "Greg" Burtt]: All right. Appreciate it. Thanks, guys.
[Rep. Richard Nelson (Ranking Member)]: Thank you, Greg.
[Rep. Gregory "Greg" Burtt]: And Michelle.
[Rep. Michelle Bos-Lun]: See you.
[Rep. Gregory "Greg" Burtt]: See you.
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: Okay. Welcome back, Bradley. I don't know if you want to
[Bradley (Legislative Counsel)]: Yeah, yeah, you can ready for me. So
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: before lunch, we were nearing the end of the conversation, I think. We've gotten close to a stopping point, definitely not at the end of the conversation, but to a natural stopping point for the day. And then I needed to head out before we were perhaps exactly done. Wanted to see whether the Legge Council had anything else they wanted to share about, either about the general topic or about the agency's proposal.
[Bradley (Legislative Counsel)]: I did not have anything additional to add beyond what we talked about.
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: Right, and I don't know whether your colleague had anything or you don't know about it anyway?
[Bradley (Legislative Counsel)]: Not at this time. I think if the committee were to ask us to draft, we might have different ideas. But at this time, I think we've raised our concerns enough.
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: Okay, good. Then while we've got Bradley, does anybody want to ask him a question or he can listen while we talk about what have we heard so far? What makes sense? What's confusing? What do you like? What do you want to hear more of?
[John L. Bartholomew (Vice Chair)]: I like that the agency seems to be on top of this and that they've reached out to try to get some agreement among interested parties, so we think that speaks volumes and is helpful. I am curious, Michael Grady said something about, that there's an important statement of legislative intent, we're making into a bill. I don't know if you can say any more about that, why we want to do that or what that would mean. So you're
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: just making note of that, and we can
[Rep. Richard Nelson (Ranking Member)]: Keep you before from going before ELCA are going over legislative intent later on.
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: Yes. Well, you guys are gonna the
[John L. Bartholomew (Vice Chair)]: whole point with legislative intent. The court missed it Yeah. Apparently.
[Bradley (Legislative Counsel)]: And if I may, I I do think that that that is a good idea, to to have to you know, or even just a finding section in the beginning, something that to clarify, to try and remove out. If the court is asked to examine the statute, they'll at least have something to go back to. I think that is one of the the issues in Taft Street, where, you know, they when they look at the plain language, they just look at the plain language of the statute. Right? But they'll also if there are finding sections or something of the sort, they'll look at that too.
[John L. Bartholomew (Vice Chair)]: So that would come under a finding section probably? Potentially. Potentially.
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: Yeah. John?
[Rep. John O'Brien]: Bradley, when something like the RIPs, as far as I understand, they were developed in rules by the agency. And so at any point can this body then statutorily say, we're gonna completely strap and start over or even say we're just gonna change three words in a rule like that? It
[Bradley (Legislative Counsel)]: is possible for the body to do both, to both amend the rules by statute and or through the legislative process and and by stat and then by statute, say, scrap these rules and start over, and here are the criteria to start over. Those are those are two ways to do it.
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: So
[Rep. Richard Nelson (Ranking Member)]: did you just say that we could, by statute, just add fireman definition of farming to the RAPs?
[Bradley (Legislative Counsel)]: It it would to fix Half Street by statute, it would have to not go into the RAPs. It would have to go into that portion of the statute that mister Collier shared with her earlier. So it could be the fix could be we would have to wordsmith language, of course, and just kind of, you know, rack our brains about it a little bit. But, you know, one potential solution would be just to say farming activity that is subject to the RAPs would be a little bit of a simpler fix than what the agency posed earlier today.
[Rep. Richard Nelson (Ranking Member)]: Oh, and understood. I thank you for that explanation. But to fix this and fix it right, we wanna protect the strawberry farm. We wanna protect someone that's Yeah. Chickens and they're feeding themselves. And, of course, you know, chickens in the summertime lay eggs like the son of a gun. They wanna feed themselves and their five neighbors and get some income to buy the chicken mash. And and or someone has got a garden, and they got do a good job farming it, and they've got extra food. They wanna be able to sell it. I I just I think it's it's farming. It's a noble pursuit, and we should advocate for everybody to be able to do that. And if a Vermont leaves the cities and towns are going real easy on this right now, I say we strike while the iron's hot before somebody says, woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. But guinea fowl, you're right. They're allowed. And I had my neighbors had them till they all got cleaned out one at a time. It's a bro. The hell.
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: And I don't the
[Jed Lipsky (Clerk)]: league
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: of cities and towns is scheduled to testify next week. And yes, the agency began conversations with the League of Cities and Towns in June. I mean, they were right on it. And yet, I don't think that they are necessarily exactly on the same page. As each other. So we would want to wait and hear from them formally before we conclude that. But they have certainly had conversations and have good faith conversations, as have the farm groups who have, we already know, a different perspective. So I do think if we could have you, Bradley, tomorrow, if you have time, if we can fit some time in after lunch maybe this quickly, come in with language that, again, I mentioned this yesterday, is the easiest, simplest fix to get us back to where we thought we were, where we have been for forty plus years or whatever it's been. I guess it's not quite forty years. Just so we could see that, just so we could see, and again, suggesting that that's a proposal, but just so we see here's what would satisfy the court anyway, so that the court would look at this and say, okay, that's what you want, I understand that.
[Rep. John O'Brien]: Okay, okay.
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: And if that's not as straightforward as I'm imagining it is, we can talk about that.
[Bradley (Legislative Counsel)]: Okay, okay. Yeah. Yes. Yes. I'll I'll chat with her.
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: Yeah. And I'm just, again, noting that the proposal that we discussed this morning and then the proposal or the I guess it was proposal that we heard yesterday, or introduction to a proposal from rural Vermont, went well beyond it, saying we should do, while we're here, let's talk about the right to grow food. Similar in some ways to,
[Rep. Richard Nelson (Ranking Member)]: you know, what we hear this morning. Richard? So, yeah, I was thinking on h five thirty seven. Yep. You know, if we did this right, do we even need to take up H537, the right to grow vegetable garden? Well, yeah,
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: I mean we could, so, right, it be combined? Could it be combined? Why not? Yeah. In theory, yeah. And it's certainly addressing the same general. Are people allowed to grow their own food?
[Rep. John O'Brien]: That somewhat got into that issue, gladly flagged. It's a different part of the statute and law between or Steve, maybe, about the private property, HOAs and tenant versus municipalities.
[Bradley (Legislative Counsel)]: That's exactly right. It would be a different area of statute to require a landlord to allow a tenant to vegetables or something of the sort. That would be a different area
[Jed Lipsky (Clerk)]: of law.
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: Yeah. And we haven't taken any testimony on that bill, we might find that maybe we didn't want to combine them. There might be reasons not to, but at the surface, seems like, oh, there's some similarities here.
[Rep. John O'Brien]: But I think it'd be good for the committee also to have the discussion, you just brought up, Richard, of do we and Steve, do we want to somewhat expand into that territory between former RAP threshold and chickens in the backyard, the one to four acre landscape?
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: To the extent that the, I keep saying the league of cities and towns as a stand in, I think, for people who might have a perspective that's that perspective. It's certainly appealing that we might want to be able to say, yeah, you can grow vegetables, you can have a few chickens, maybe you can have a milking cow if you've got an acre. And now you can't, we can't. That isn't necessarily true. Are there thoughts?
[Rep. John O'Brien]: That one to four acres
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: of world, do we
[Rep. John O'Brien]: know of municipalities that have restricted or even banned that sort of it's not farming because it's not meeting the IPs, but it's potential gardening livestock.
[Bradley (Legislative Counsel)]: I think the city of Essex is one of them, to ban agriculture activity in in residential areas. And as was part of the subject of in Tap Street. And and so in their in their zoning plan and things of the sort, they had, you know, just different sections of their town, cordoned off for different purposes. Agriculture was one of the purposes, but it was only in the outskirts. And so, in residential neighborhoods and things of the sort, no agriculture activity. That was that was the the crux of the issue in that case.
[Rep. Richard Nelson (Ranking Member)]: But perhaps a personal garden doesn't fit into that description of an agricultural activity.
[Bradley (Legislative Counsel)]: That that is correct. That is correct. So, individuals could potentially and I'm not as familiar with the city of Essex in particular, but talking in generalities now, it is potential for someone to do just a backyard garden. I don't know if the city of Exodus Essex permitted backyard you know, a coop of five or six chickens, but it is possible to permit those uses, while also prohibiting agriculture more broadly, in their in their plants.
[John L. Bartholomew (Vice Chair)]: We need to be careful about using the term backyard garden though, because some backyards are heavily shaded or in the north side, maybe their garden needs to be in the front yard.
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: Yeah. That's the epic principle, early issue there in fact, the
[John L. Bartholomew (Vice Chair)]: backyard garden is kind of the moniker that we spit out when maybe that's not where it's gonna go.
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: Okay, good. Well, we'll have more testimony on this subject and keep thinking about it. Thank you. Thank you very much.
[John L. Bartholomew (Vice Chair)]: I'd be really sad if I could to therapy.
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: Oh, I don't know whether you're the right person, but we should probably have, I asked Patricia to write down cannabis because that question, somebody said something about this. Just maybe we should have a quick refresher from Legis Council on how our cannabis growing laws interact here or intersect with this issue? As as well, Brady was counsel O'Grady was talking to counsel Collier,
[Rep. Richard Nelson (Ranking Member)]: he said, you have a plant that include cannabis and counseled Collier one.
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: Definitions, yeah.
[Jed Lipsky (Clerk)]: I
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: think we'll wrap up here. Please be available tomorrow, just last thing before we go. After lunch, I think we will meet briefly. After the floor? The floor is in the morning and then we'll meet at the floor, and please be available after March.
[Rep. John O'Brien]: Okay,
[Rep. David Durfee (Chair)]: thank you.