SmartTranscript of Senate Government Operations - 2025-02-05 - 1:30PM

[Chair Brian Collamore ]: There we go. Good afternoon once again. Welcome back to the senate committee on government operations meeting of Wednesday, February fifth. We are delighted to have our state archivist. I I guess some people might still say archivist. I don't know. [Tanya Marshall ]: I've only known archivist. [Chair Brian Collamore ]: Yeah. Tanya Marshall is with us today. She's also the chief records officer for the state. And it's been a while since I saw you, but I used to sit in one of these chairs at one point and you would come in. So very quickly well, we'll just have you introduce yourself, senator Harris, because everybody else knows. Senator Larry Harris from Orange County. [Member Alison Clarkson ]: Allison Clark, Parks and Windsor District. [Chair Brian Collamore ]: Brian Kolomar representing the Rutland District. [Tanya Marshall ]: I'm Jillian Mcmitty assistant. [Member Rebecca White ]: Another. And I'm Becca White, and I'm from the Windsor County District. Nice to meet you. [Chair Brian Collamore ]: So welcome. And, we're kind of still in that introductory sort of phase of the session, but, it's always great to see you. And what's new? [Tanya Marshall ]: Yeah. Well, for the record, I'm Tanya Marshall, state archivist and chief records officer. And I also direct the Vermont State Archives and Records Administration as part of the secretary of state's office. So, I thought I I don't know if I've actually done a formal committee, like, introduction for this committee in recent years. Long run. I don't think you have. So if you Okay. Get to a field trip. We did do a field trip. We were all invited to to come visit us in Middlesex. I thought I'd give some just general background about myself Sure. Just as a refresher in case you haven't, and then I'll talk about the Vermont State Archives and records administration. We'll bubble up figures. We have commonalities in Western New York. [Chair Brian Collamore ]: We're major too. [Member Alison Clarkson ]: Oh, no. We had the possible caucus. We just have to remember going quite tiny to join us. [Tanya Marshall ]: The speaker and I graduated from the same high school. Oh, major. Different years. Different years. And had done coursework and research all focused on government, archive records, and information. At the end of that doctoral program, I was informed that government records and information was not scholarly for a PhD. And and, the role of archivist was not really a profession. So I had some choices at that point, to stay and do something focused on medical journals and doctors, which really wasn't my interest. I mean, I always focused more on the federal government. I was pretty early on electronically stored information, so my focus had been digital records pretty early and dating myself by doing the digital strategies two thousand for federal government, and I'm program assistant for that. And, at that point, my husband and I have three small children, two and under. We have twins, and we decided just work on a life change to come to Vermont. And we came here and ex assumed I would never work in the field of government archives, reference of information. We'd be an archivist, giving that feedback. That the secretary of state's office called me a few months later and said that the archives law, which was passed by this committee on the house, had created for the first time provision to create the state archives for the state of Vermont, which we hadn't had before, which was interesting being the fourteenth state. Mhmm. But not your business? Two thousand and three. Mhmm. And being the last state in the country, we actually, through legislation, create the state archives. Prior to that, it would be the secretary of state had two areas in law where the secretary of state would be responsible. That was legislative records that came after the session and then governor's record when governor left office and then certain statutory filings. But everything else was captured at the courts and, and the executive branch and then local government. And in two thousand and three, records management was actually with buildings in general services. Mhmm. There had been a state archivist role and a public records role in the, you know, thirties and forties and fifties. There's public records mission. Their building is actually where the supreme court was. They're seated there long ago. We miss you being there, actually. [Member Alison Clarkson ]: Pardon? We miss you being there. [Member Rebecca White ]: She's got temperature controlled, beautiful space now, though. Right? [Tanya Marshall ]: Yeah. It's a very different kind of space over over there. But, but originally, that was that was where it was seeded. But, eventually, what happened with records in the state is, came with storage. You know, we were just storing them in in centralized services. They built the state reference center in Middlesex, which is where we're located for the Vermont State Archives and Record Administration. So when I came in to that archives law, I was actually deployed from over to Middlesex and and given a room a little, you know, bigger than this and taller. And that's where the secretary of state's office would own the records in there. There were kind of records that were accessioned and just kinda sitting there, and that was the focus of the archives law. But it kept walking out to the record center, which is a hundred thousand boxes. And it didn't make a whole lot of sense. And, you know, I'm definitely a very curious person because why would we just focus on the small number of boxes and not the bigger picture and started working and asking questions. And, eventually, what I did was I worked part time temporary with the secretary of state's office and the archives law, but also worked for the court administrator's office, which was had a moratorium that could send more records to the records center, through the courts. And we didn't have a unified court system. And then also worked with the secretary administration. And so for two years with three of all three of them came up with a strategic plan that was submitted to the legislature upon its request for judicial records and and, and executive branch records. And from there, the Vermont State Archives and Records Administration was granted by this committee and the government operating in the House House in two thousand and eight. And it's, yeah, it's been a very wonderful so now I can describe what we do, but I'm not sure if you have any questions before I talk about what we do [Chair Brian Collamore ]: for the Monoxide Archives and Records Administration. The flood or floods, did that impact anything that you sort of [Tanya Marshall ]: Which which floods? The more recent ones? [Chair Brian Collamore ]: Yeah. Which [Member Alison Clarkson ]: Yeah. They didn't touch you in Middlesex. Right? [Tanya Marshall ]: No. And so that's, you know, one of the areas where we you know, two thousand eight was when the Vermont State Archives and Records Administration was created by consolidating this public records division and building some general services and then state archives function in the secretary of state's office. And by happenstance, at the same time, the capital construction bill was coming through throughout the state archives vault for the first time that the secretary of state's office had been really wanting. And so that part of planning was looking to make sure something was not in the flood zone, and was not prone. So we may may be accidents. So we are not we do have a train track behind us that sometimes, you know, gets people asking questions about what could happen with, you know, cranes only because of different fuel that might pass through there. But otherwise, the facility has been there since the nineteen eighties, as a central services after the state police was located, in that complex along with, different parts of community services in Newgate. And it's been you know, aside from infrastructure for, like, and central, it's actually been a very good location. How much of [Chair Brian Collamore ]: it is paper still, and how much of it has been digitized? In other words, old documents from way back must have been kept. [Tanya Marshall ]: Yeah. Well, we didn't have a state archives for people to keep them, so then we keep them in the state record center, which was still in the custody of, you know, whoever stored it there. There's two things that we knew would happen over a tipping point was that, you know, we have this large warehouse. It's just state records center, which all three branches use to store records that didn't go with paper records or analog records that not have that we needed, but are still needed to stay in the custody, their legal custody for different functions they do. And then we build the state archive vault. We actually take legal custody from the agency or report because their function is done. That that record is finite and closed short case, and we become the custodian and we respond to public records request. So we knew that tipping point would happen where the record center, because of different technologies and a shift to, you know, more electronic based, or digital records would happen. So we purposely put those together. So, ideally, we would start retrofitting the right center center space for archives. We don't actively encourage just mass scanning of paper records because there's not often a system or a use case or on large for that, although it does support certain reasons. Yeah. [Member Alison Clarkson ]: We're just [Tanya Marshall ]: showing a visual But, [Member Rebecca White ]: yeah, your photos the constitution. Oh, that's not [Tanya Marshall ]: what I well, that's what I'm saying. [Member Rebecca White ]: Oh, now very upsetting now. Very interesting. [Member Alison Clarkson ]: Larry, here he here's a picture. [Tanya Marshall ]: No. That was kind of a man who's a man who's a man who's a man who's [Chair Brian Collamore ]: a man who's a girl. [Tanya Marshall ]: No. That's fine. That that there was, like, either something's happening that I don't know about that's not related, or maybe it's a visual for that. We are showing a picture of the fire field trip two years ago. You're more than welcome to to come back. [Chair Brian Collamore ]: I think we might schedule another one. [Member Rebecca White ]: Yeah. I'd love to hear from everyone's [Member Alison Clarkson ]: student. It was really I mean, [Tanya Marshall ]: it's very nice to kinda get that perspective too because That's what I just showed her. It I mean, it really our goal right now is that if it's paper based and it's done with the agency or department or the court and most people have transitioned, like, the courts have transitioned not only to a unified court system, which they weren't before two thousand eleven, but also an odyssey and electronic filing. They just, you know, once a case is closed or determined, they don't have to, one, worry about it in their storage areas, which are much more expensive or paper based. But we can also provide additional services with that record being stored and facilitate public access in different ways for a public access room. We can, help with, you know, certain types of record keeping responsibilities that come through, like expungement, something that courts kinda find those records and do that. And also plan ahead to know, like, for what is the footprint that we need to complete the paper and analog records. I do really look forward to your time. But just for an overview for what we do and what we look like in twenty twenty five, when we first were created, it was about issues within our records center and lack of management on all three branches. Just we've never really had information professionals, and my my background is information science and, obviously, you know, digital and having to build a workforce that could help people really do this. The representative is overflowing over storage. And a lot of times what buildings in general services was kinda trying to do with also frame down, you know, square footage cost in buildings. So records were coming sooner than they needed to be inside that Middlesex. So if you're a court in Brownborough and you have an active family space that just closed, but you know where it's gonna kinda come up again, maybe not for two years. You were shut you know, sending your records out to Middlesex, which wasn't convenient for the court staff. And then because the record center was overflowing, everything was being miniaturized onto microfilm, which never was before complicated, which is a legacy that we live. It's not that we chose that, but it is a legacy. So we really see ourselves as being in partnership with, you know, the consequences of certain record keeping. And then our charge is, like, bring it up and help improve that. And so we do the same with digital records, which we kinda create that same conundrum with, you know, some of the repositories that we have for, digital records. You know, it's they're they're the largest record keeping system now. It has ton of digital records, but it's the same storage thing. It had been moved from one store to the other without management. So those are the things that we're we try to get it thrown out, but we don't always have control of. So what we do and, Corinne, I'm just gonna is, you know, we really sit there. Our job is to preserve, promote, protect, and provide accurate, reliable information. And we have two programs and two service levels that we we really promote right now. And one is our administrative and reference services. You know, that includes a lot of people don't know that the administrative procedure act, for example, goes to the Vermont State Archives and Records Administration. The acts and resolves, the assignment of the act number and the securing of that document after the governor has signed, actually goes through us. We assign that act number. When it comes to municipal districts and their formations, whether it's school districts, communication union districts, they under the law or bodies, politic, and corporate. That filing comes to the Vermont State Archives and Records Administration to formalize them in both in both worlds. We authenticate documents for foreign use. So someone can come in for a, Vermont notarized document and want to use it legally in another country. We authenticate that document so it can be used legally also for certified public records. We do, the state boards and commissions registry, and tracking that. We certify vital records. That's all administrative service. You're using it as a whole public facing part, including people who wanna come in to do a research for records in the archives, or if something's stored by an agency or a court or the legislative branch because slash counsel uses the record center, for example, and so does Eleanor and others, then they can either request a record and we'll send that back, or they can actually authorize someone to come into our facility and and securely access that record based on terms that they have. So that only one unit, administrative services, administrative and reference services, does that work. Senator [Member Rebecca White ]: Wayne. Thank you, mister chair. So I had asked at one point if we could get it was either you or the folks from the libraries who sent a lovely email about if you are a legislature and you have a topic that's coming up that you want some historical information on, here it is. And I used that service multiple times, and it was very helpful to me. I can't find the email that tells me how to do that again. Again. [Tanya Marshall ]: I could probably explain where you may have seen an email like that. There was there used to be a state library, component within the Department of Libraries that may have had that, and that particular office was disbanded and split, perhaps. Mhmm. I'm thinking perhaps that. Do you recall well, if you were to [Member Rebecca White ]: I'll give you the example of what I used it for [Tanya Marshall ]: is I know what you would use it for, but do you know where you would have gotten it from? I'm just Where [Member Alison Clarkson ]: do you tell them from? [Tanya Marshall ]: I don't know. I thought, well, it was Jason? No. [Member Rebecca White ]: It was like they emailed all legislators, like, at the beginning of last biennium, and I just kept the information. And I had requested, like so the example was the senate was having a hearing related to the appointment of a interim secretary of education. And I emailed to ask, is that I'm hearing information that we haven't ever not approved a secretary of education. But I don't have the ability or time to, like, really research this question. Is that information available? And I sent that email and they came back to me and gave me an answer, which was, yes. No secretary Unfortunately, that's great. Yeah. Exactly. They figured it out. [Tanya Marshall ]: I don't know how to do it. [Member Rebecca White ]: And then I asked, well, has there ever been you know? And they gave me an example that I mean, [Tanya Marshall ]: we do that work. Okay. I don't know the communication that you would've got. But whatever would you ever have come from our office? Because it sounds like an internal general assembly kind of communication for that. But you can write it down. It's s o s dot archives at Vermont dot gov. And that's the first entry point to our reference room. It might be routed to different individuals. It might be if it's sensitive, you just send it directly to me for questions. But that is one of the core functions that we do in all different areas of our different programs and services is that it's key to us to be able to provide new information about your own laws and It's not. You know, and the history of them. And, I'll kinda talk about how we do that. And if we don't have it readily available and it's not much that we get to go to paper records. It's just we have a model that we've collected different information to quickly provide that. It's part of how we do similar records appraisal, which helps us teach and write retention and disposition and security around records and information. But the key for us, we are here to be your legislative research support. Usually, it's ledge counsel. Like, sometimes ledge counsel, if they're working on a bill and they're working with a legislator, you know, however that you know, go ask Basara kind of question will come up. That has come through that in many different ways, but that is what we're here to do. The legislative documentation is with the Vermont State Archives and Records Administration. The longest function the secretary of state is to prefer preserved legislative information. And then one of our models has become is to really, because we're all focused on government records and information is knowing where other related information exists across that and also understanding the functions of government. And we've done that for the most recent report last year that this that, you know, went through this committee and got supported is that opening up the foster care [Member Alison Clarkson ]: Oh, yeah. Record. Oh, right. You were in our committee discussions. We wrote the report. Yeah. [Tanya Marshall ]: And it really came out to why how did this happen, and why did we even do this in the first place? And and then dissecting that so that we could provide that information, but also identify two lives that could be, you know, amended to make a make a difference. And then our role is just more objectively to put that information out. But what I'll do is look at a mechanism, and I don't know within the general assembly if that would be, like, legislative operations or who we can say every year to make sure that it is included, you know, there. And then we do have a section on our website, but there used to be something maybe tied to some of their You [Member Rebecca White ]: don't need to send anyone an email now that I know. Okay. [Tanya Marshall ]: No. No. No. It's s o s could be. SOS. [Member Alison Clarkson ]: S dot archives dot vermont dot gov. [Tanya Marshall ]: At vermont dot at vermont dot gov. Or, like, an email if you're sending that. [Member Rebecca White ]: That's [Member Alison Clarkson ]: So s o s dot archives at vermont. Yep. I wrote it down [Member Rebecca White ]: and then Yeah. [Tanya Marshall ]: And on the front end of the document that I just passed, it does have our, you know, view or our website address too. But, you know, if it's if it's something that gets routed to one of our different service areas or different, you know, programs, you know, sending a message to SOS. That archives always gets it routed internally. And if we aren't the one that can help, we actually do make a connection where somebody else, you know, can do that work. The other service unit that we have is technical services. So we operate three enterprise wide statewide repositories to talk about the record center. This is for inadvertent analog records that are inactive and no longer needed to be, like, directly, on-site for a court or, an executive branch or legislature. This still needs to remain in their legal custody for different reasons. So it's a it's a transfer there. It's a storage opt you know, kind of operation that we have. And then we perform the record, you know, management requirements on that. If it needs to be requested, it goes through a designated person in that agency or department records officer. They'll make the request or they'll have a a point of liaison to do that. But we provide different services. And when it comes up for destruction, you know, we notify the agency that the retention has been met for that. We also have the state archives vault. So that's paper or analog records that are now in our custody. I would say for the state record center, largest user is the judiciary and human services. Right now, the largest data archives component is the judiciary. It's unique. We're We're the only state in the country that actually has that relationship with its court, court system and judiciary. Mhmm. It might go back to that original origins of us working with the court administrator's office and and secretary administration, secretary of state on on how do we wanna do records, you know, management and records information management there. We're doing a courthouse speak. Just met with the court administrator's office. We do it every two weeks to talk about what we can do to support them. And then we have the digital state archives, and it's a digital preservation system, which means it's not only taking in digital records with state, which is now, you know, majority. Our biggest I mean, it's from the judiciary or from the legislature. That's our biggest set of digital records. All your videos is, you know, all the YouTube videos. Everything that's with her. And they all come there. We're actually looking at but it's a digital preservation system, which I think is really important to know the difference. It's not just files stored in a system. It's a key part for authentication, reliability, and knowing that it has been changed is to get, one, that change of custody directly from the custodian to us digitally, not intermediaries. So the records have changed, but also showing that it is the record as received in that time frame. And the digital preservation piece allows us to actually render copies of it in technologies that people can still read. And that was part of a federal funded program that we did with multiple states to bring something to market that was, cost effective and low cost. And we're looking at that one between our state enterprise walls and our digital preservation system to open it up to municipalities, this year because there's no reason for them to have certain sets of records and try to duplicate that at two hundred and fifty out of some locations. It's just a cost that doesn't need to be there for them. And centralization actually helps it for the same reason that agencies and departments, if they don't have to, you know, carry that that responsibility, if we can do it more efficiently and more cost effective. [Chair Brian Collamore ]: Senator Clarkson. [Member Alison Clarkson ]: So, Tanya, these are huge files. Mhmm. [Tanya Marshall ]: How do you [Member Alison Clarkson ]: transmit those files of this of that scale? I mean, how the there's different ways. I don't have time sending more than six photographs. [Tanya Marshall ]: So right now, between ourselves and legislator goes through legislative IT, and they have had to do that through hard drives. Although we wanna have a data connection, we'd actually love to just have some of these things, like, made available through the legislative website, but actually get them in time, you know, after instead of one set. So we haven't received the twenty twenty three to twenty twenty four legislative sessions committee records yet because I think it's overwhelming that that I'm not gonna speak on behalf of of Kevin Moore, but I think it is overwhelming for their team when they're thinking about how to do this. Yeah. The reason looking and wanting to see something that's more streamlined, that takes the weight off of them on a regular basis, and and just allows us regular feed because then we wouldn't have to do it as this one time because then it's not on on us. It's hard too when it comes in. For the executive branch, the largest record keeping system, not records management. It's not running records management functions right now, but that's something we're working with agency digital services because they manage it is our Microsoft three sixty five tenant. And we've been working on a connector between that and our digital archives that, say, for example, state board and commission has regular house minutes, and we know they're permanent. We know they need to preserve them. We know that, you know, once a certain time has passed, everyone wants to have access to it, but they don't necessarily need to keep building and keeping, you know, sets of records. They can actually have them preserved in the digital archives and still be accessible. A connector that allows us to automatically happen, but they can still view it in their own environment. They don't have to jump to the digital archives to do that. And, and that's very exciting because that automates that. And in addition, it will carry with it indexing information. That is really key knowing which board, which commission, which time frame, if they've been adding additional stuff, is searchable. So we're looking at connectors for those and other sets of records. We're all kind of behind the scenes doing Yeah. Thing. We're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're [Member Alison Clarkson ]: we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we're we Kentucky or, you know, where It's a cloud based where are we where are [Tanya Marshall ]: we Yeah. It's a cloud based, you know, application. We're the first actually to do a cloud based application for that with parameters and when the journey goes out. It was one of the first kind of implementations for that. And then there's a lot of redundancy because we work with those particular partners. You know, related to that connector and that file size is, obviously, we have a lot of records that are should not they don't need to be kept permanently. And so some of our other kind of applications allow us to do files analysis and storage areas, electronically stored areas. And we did successful pilots with the agency of human services for a tool that does this, like, governance component and then helps you kinda clean records because nobody really wants to it's like picture picture going, you know, cleaning out it however you're also they're not the one who lived there, but everyone is. I've got their clothes and their closets and everything. It's overwhelming. And so It's easier if you don't have it live there. But we really but our servers are in executive branch. [Member Alison Clarkson ]: Yeah. Servers. That's right. Sure. [Tanya Marshall ]: And and they're all you know, you have it. You gotta provide it. It's underneath the public records act. So there's a lot of strain and, you know, kind of complications for having Uber storage for not just cost and sizing, but in locations when you do get our public records request and having to go through information that you you you know, from an agency perspective, they don't know how to search it or what's there, but you wanna be compliant, obviously, with the public records. And so we do a lot of different strategies, which gets to one of our corporals is really focusing on those strategies. And those technologies are gonna simplify record keeping for the local government and for the state government because we do both. So those two areas are kind of like when you come into the building, those are the things that are happening. And then we have two core programs. One is our target assistance program. So this is where we actually go into the different entity agencies. This is focused on executive branch and judicial branch to help them shore up their programs to kind of add that extra information management professional there because only two agencies have full time information managers, transportation and human services, and that human services person works with all departments. But we do consultation services, information management, and then we set retention and disposition underneath the law. You know, anything that's written or recorded in the course of business is a government record, and the expectation is that there's an authorization for destroying it. And that provides for, you know, transparency and accountability in government, but also that. So that group does write those management policies for the agencies. And we also build out the security plans which code them to let people know, like, what records are examined underneath there. So they have a lot of ability to not only locate that information and define that this is exactly underneath the health department there. And and here's a citation so they can do that that provision. And so it's part of that management. So our service assistance program does that with the executive branch and judicial branch, and then we have the historical and local records program. They're combined because local government is a kind of a regional, and we're going out to different historical societies. So they do the same kind of work with, you know, when it's public records and government sector on public records act or management records inconsistent as a government, you know, entity. But then with the historical societies and others, it's an additional kind of service that we added in two thousand and seventeen because we get so many calls from nonprofits and museums and others. And if you just say, how do you manage an archives? How do we manage archival records? And we realize it's very sustainable and better to have, you know, sustainable resources within the Vermont State Archives and Records Administration, even though they're not public records, which is the scope of everything else that we do. And we're improving our BIST program. So sometimes they're going in and they end up, you know, going next door to the town clerk's office and talking to them. So we have those kind of combined. So it's, you know, some mitigation in that community, urban mitigation is needed, and that team is familiar enough to say, oh, you can work with my colleague who does the local records and make that connection if they see it. And that's been a really good program. It's just really coming off the ground, and that's been, like, some of the flood responses. Right? We've had that where, you know, our historical writers program has been called out to a museum or a nonprofit that was affected by flooding and coordinates with, emergency management. But while there, we'll touch base with the local government offices that are there too to check-in on them and make sure that they actually, you know, have what they need that we're doing on a recovery standpoint. And then if there's a call related to, oh, we found these public records, And there's a lot of public records in areas you would not expect or people you would not expect. We're able to combine those forces and try to understand what happened, historically and why they're like that. So it's been a really good you know, now we're adding more of the local records piece. Local records used to be part of TAP, but there's so much that are, you know, within the government state government part that you know, they're moving faster. State government's moving faster in electronic and digital records than state level government too. So but so that we're twenty people. [Member Alison Clarkson ]: Given how much you manage, it's not that many people. Mhmm. [Tanya Marshall ]: It's not that many people, but we feel like we're very resourceful. You know, part of our charge is really looking at innovative ways to to, you know, help everybody. You know, our our key part is, you know, really building these statewide capacities and also this understanding at large. With the reports that we've been doing, it it's really any any scope of that work. It a lot of I was just in commerce and economic development yesterday for a land records modernization effort, but also watching that the tax appraisals and the reappraisals, that that those two are melded together. And, you know, Department of Tax has just issued the act of CA up to twenty twenty three report, and we're all in the same boat. And so it's really about what technologies can do to make it simplified Mhmm. Make it more effective, bring the cost down, and make sure it's within the realm of what is legally expected. And so the last page that I presented to you is, you know, when we stood up this program and I got that call about the Arc Expo in two thousand three, and it was Gregory Sanford, which some of you were the member's predecessor. He's like, we have no idea how to do this. The law required or gave the secretary of state authority to find anything that's permanent and take custody of it. But, I mean, I think that's how it was my comfort. And, I you know, now think about that. How how do you how do you go about this decision making? Right? And so, you know, the first part of it was that we're finding out what's permanent because internally find out what's not permanent and set retention, but that was sitting with Build Agent General Services at the time, which is why that kind of ended up melding together. But, also, things change over time. So, you know, you may have a set of records that were created in the nineteen eighty, but the laws were very different, and the current laws aren't there. But someone needs to know them. And at the same time, you know, I don't I've always looked at what bills you're passed out in your committee. When an act comes out of the general assembly every year, we we go through that entire act and define whether or not a new body has been created, a new public entity, what their roles and responsibilities are. So you know the definition sections? Those become what we call areas of, you know, domains, areas of accountability. Right? We have children in need of care or supervision. There's a there's a term and there's a definition, and then there's a multiple entities that have some responsibility in that area. Some might be, you know, adjudicating on something. Some might be coordinating services. Some might be so they're all interrelated. And we have a data model that we take this information, extract it from your laws, and, determine what functions are being done by who, where do they intersect, what is the law or the rule. And if it's federal, it's federal law or rule of regulation. And then what is the written or recorded information that either is byproduct happening or required in that those laws to happen. We put into a data model so someone can come to us and say, and we've done this with the legislature a couple times when there's permit reform in two thousand and twelve or thirteen. It was like, do you have something that you could run a report on to tell us all the different permitting programs in the state? And we did. If you look on this last model where it says activities, permit is we define that, and we define it by dictionary term. And then we looked across the laws and functions, and we were able to run that and show all the different program areas, throughout the state that have permitting programs, specifically what agencies, what area it's on, and provide you with the citations for the actual laws that were there. When an agency is working with us and saying, we need a management plan. We need to understand. We're doing electronic. These you know, those that information sustain that we use to define that. We use that for the last foster care. We use it for the data privacy a few years ago, understanding exactly where all the laws had made reference to data elements to also show which ones, you know, individuals or state agencies are expected to provide. A name and an address is very common for permitting programs, for example, to show, like, this property and this property owner has, you know, got a permit to go do x as part of that right to know. It's different than maybe data privacy that someone might be asking for in a different context. Yeah. I mean, it just we use it everywhere. So it's it's been really it's been a nice model to use. So that's where it gets to if someone has a legislative question or if you're working on an act or you're trying to understand where does this intersect or who are we missing for testifying, where does this go. As soon as we know that question, we can plug it into this model. And if we don't already have the data to do that, we can do it pretty fast to find. [Chair Brian Collamore ]: Did you have a question, Senator? [Tanya Marshall ]: I [Member Rebecca White ]: did, mister chair. It it's actually really helpful to kinda understand how you make those decisions. But I I had a broader question, if that's okay, as you come come to the end of your presentation. We are seeing on the federal level many websites and pieces of information that we had kind of expected or at least I had expected would always be available, including basic public health information, information about different I mean, anything to do with it seems like racial equity is being taken offline. Do we need to put in place anything on the Vermont side to protect either our state websites from federal intervention or to shore up that if we ever in Vermont had a government executive branch situation like what we have at the federal level that we could do now. [Tanya Marshall ]: Because does that make sense? [Member Rebecca White ]: I'm trying to think of [Tanya Marshall ]: a way of I know what you're talking I know exactly what you're saying because this we're in a situation that we never envisioned. Right? I think we're all safe to say that. You know, before, let's just say, December, you know, part of the thing that we've been working on is in the archival field for, you know, not being a profession. We have there's a lot of articles. [Member Rebecca White ]: Email list. [Tanya Marshall ]: Is is is really the the pivoting for those who are really in that realm who need to do that is, you know, we already have misinformation happening and disinformation. That's become kind of the normal in the last few years. And probably our focus role is to really that accurate, reliable, trustworthy information and just to hear it and understand it and also be able to validate that. And so authentication becomes even more necessary and understanding that the lines of transmission, that chain of custody between here to there is the same as the police kind of train of custody for that. So watching at the federal level, and I've been thinking a lot about that in I may not be able to answer. I may have that possibility, but then it come back because, you know, our whole basis of what we kinda do between federal and state is that kind of model here. Right? If we're running like, our dependencies, we know about the dependencies there. But the lack of information and suddenly not having that actually ups that component Yeah. Of information management and, you know, way different than we picture when we do boxes and, you know, the department center was overflowing. It's it's the next level, and it's fast. We knew that, you know, COVID moved everything digital fast. But now it's it's the integrity issue. It's the availability issue. So I would say, yeah, I think I'd I'd have to get back to you to come to her. [Member Rebecca White ]: How did you have rebalancing this one? [Tanya Marshall ]: Between the two about, you know, even for what what do individual states have to do to to, one, not have the same situation happen? Yeah. Right? In terms of availability of information and access to information and expectations and the balancing of, you know, the different powers and so forth. But at the same time, what do we actually have to start doing now as a state to build up that integrity and that that protect their own records to prevent it from misuse and misinformation even perhaps at the federal level? Yeah. And these interdependencies that we're seeing, you know, on some of the data privacy, like we said, with commerce and, economic development yesterday, and some of the data privacy has been, you know, within their areas to be working on that. Some of the some of the components that we're seeing now of who has access to what at different levels is really where I I do think there needs to be a response on the state part to understand the impact even on personal, you know, data that wouldn't intersect always with the state government, but is now intersecting in a different way with federal government for remonters, even among those federal employees that are here. Oh, that that is a whole [Member Rebecca White ]: another layer. I had not thought about that. That is very interesting and more concerning. [Tanya Marshall ]: Well, it is concerning. It's a lot more concerning. I think, you know, one of the one of the comments I didn't think is as I do the orient is, well well, people picture a bit. I mean, some of the you know, as the chief records officer hat that I have because, you know, information officer is kind of CIO is kind of technology based in in our worlds and not really about information. But I've always been, and I started, you know, as that graduate student in federal. That was the alignment that we had was for federal government to build out these federal capabilities for digital information and securing that. And, and actually, my even though I'm not a, you know, an attorney by any means, you know, my studies and information policy were with this, c CIA's FOIA officer for three semesters. So you kinda get a deep dive on how to dissect government laws, understand balance of rights of privacy to also, you know, transparency. And, you know, even though in the CIA, it doesn't always get a good reputation. Lee Strickland, who as soon as passed away, had a very strong and positive reaction on all of us because he was able to articulate why certain things had to be, you know, not disclosed. But it was a good entry point to really understanding how we have to dissect the laws and understand how they impact information, but how we can do better because some of the feedback, you know, when they do come back, the legislature is being able to show and objectively, it's not a it's not a policy decision of mine. It's more than being able to give you abilities to do policy decisions that you wanna do, objectively, where some of the lives create a a situation that could be a liability. And that's really, you know, the the next step. I mean, I know for papers, I just that's that's why I you know, that's what I kind of glad to have you at the [Member Rebecca White ]: helm then during this time period. You can't go anywhere. [Tanya Marshall ]: But that [Member Alison Clarkson ]: but I [Tanya Marshall ]: think, you know, come back and ask those questions, and then I will get back to you in looking at or if there's very specific, you know, situations that even you get an awareness of, let's dissect that because this model doesn't matter what entity we're looking. It really has become a very strong it's linked data, a very strong model to quickly find information to provide back to legislators in particular. You know, we're just target, but I am, you know, worried my you know, this birth personally and my my husband actually worked at the Census Bureau before we moved there, and that was, and he mainly worked at federal contracts. And so the announcement that that data in the Census Bureau is no longer available. And, it is it's just shocking to to me, but it also now is processing how do we not have how how do we [Member Alison Clarkson ]: state secure Sorry. Sorry. Just say that one again. Pardon? Data from the Census Bureau is no longer available to [Tanya Marshall ]: us? Census Bureau data was one of those websites that that got you know, so the American Statistical Association has, you know, your choice. No. I know. This is not good. I'm giving you I mean, it may be back up today because every day changes on certain things, which I I don't know. But as of the But [Member Rebecca White ]: then it could in any way [Member Alison Clarkson ]: to do it. So they [Tanya Marshall ]: should have also say at this point, people don't have the confidence in federal data because it has been somewhat free even if there's a not. And that that's that's that's the custodial kind of component that affects all different levels. You know, we're gonna see it in different ways, and that's really our role. Our role is to help people. If you're a CAG and you, you know, you're working on information, the the key part for us is that, you know, we have this maturity model on how they're actually managing it. But we always wanna be in this maturity model, I mean, like, not so great kind of ad hoc. That's usually where we, you know, are too transformative. Like, we're actually using our information that we're afraid to receive to do better, you know, to do that service to Vermonters that we expect or, you know, our collaborators and, you know, compromises in what they can even, you know, do that's not even a choice of an agency or department right now or in in Vermont, you know, is is really where we're watching some of those data exchanges. And that might be an area that focused on its understanding, you know, from parts of the executive branch, for example, where are these data exchanges now been affected in some way? Because then we can really see what, you know, what areas of staff did you maybe need to change or shore up. Mhmm. And that's, like, an example of a use case. But once we have that, then maybe we we could replicate that with the same with the same Okay. Yeah. [Member Alison Clarkson ]: So we'll have many conversations on these problems. [Chair Brian Collamore ]: I mean Yeah. [Tanya Marshall ]: That's what that's what we're here for, and our team, you know, is I mean, we half of our team has master's degrees in in information science. But, you know, everyone goes into that program because you just have a desire to help. And I think that's one of the key words that I love about our team and is no matter what the question, everyone's still willing just to help even if it's something they haven't done before and and just wanna be part of that that that. [Chair Brian Collamore ]: Senator Clarkson? [Member Alison Clarkson ]: Who is your IT team that protects you? I mean, I assume you get some cyberattacks and and the the archives get some has some shield and protection. Speaking of protection. [Tanya Marshall ]: I mean, we're within the executive branch. So right now with the executive branch, you [Member Alison Clarkson ]: can see a digital service. So it's ADS is your It's a whole [Tanya Marshall ]: network provider at large. Yes. Right. [Chair Brian Collamore ]: Any other questions for Tanya? [Member Alison Clarkson ]: Well, I have a question. Certainly. Which is modestly related to this, but also but would you ever be interested in sharing the treasures from the archive in a state house exhibit? [Tanya Marshall ]: Yes. We'd be happy to do that. [Member Alison Clarkson ]: Have you talked with David Sheets about that? [Tanya Marshall ]: We can reach out to him. [Chair Brian Collamore ]: No. I I can just I'm [Tanya Marshall ]: I'm I'll I'll just help him [Member Alison Clarkson ]: with an email to the two of you. [Tanya Marshall ]: We we wouldn't we wouldn't bring the original documents here just to let you know. [Member Rebecca White ]: Yeah. We we a little while ago. [Tanya Marshall ]: But, you know, some of the treasures are digital, so it's, like, really being balanced. Like, being able to show show the bigger scope of the work. Yeah. Figure out [Member Alison Clarkson ]: how to do Yeah. [Tanya Marshall ]: Because, you know, as of you know, I would say our most recent record into the, quote, unquote, archives is probably from, you know, last month. And but showing the balance of what we do because sometimes we get pigeonholed, someone sees archives or hears it, and they're thinking old records involved. And, yes, that's part of it, but forget about our, you know, abilities and and skills and information, you know, management and data management at scale for that big information piece too. It runs the whole gamut, and that's when we have to Oh, maybe like the [Member Alison Clarkson ]: two thousand eight largest love slash. Could be digital. [Tanya Marshall ]: We'd love to do a dissecting and showing, you know, where, one of the questions I received yesterday was about that I'd like worried, like, how do you actually authenticate documents and show that it hasn't been falsified or changed? [Member Alison Clarkson ]: We had that with AI yesterday with images. [Tanya Marshall ]: Oh, that's been one of the things related to the archive profession is being the store of the truth because you really can't do an artificial intelligence pillar layer truth. On something when it doesn't have accurate information or too much information that's dated because it brings back dated results for different different reasons. And so it's kind of dissecting what that that digital record really looks like to to do that. And so we've been doing you know, we started working more on agency and digital services, and they've been working more with us to balance those things so that we have the right tools for the agencies to manage their stuff and also to get rid of information that is not only relevant and should be gone because there's a cost associated to that, but also just to ensure that there's capabilities for the state to do artificial intelligence in certain areas without clouding, you know, that that view. But that that authentic being authentic and reliable and trustworthy is really high. Sure. And and, and our systems aren't always it's not so much cyber attack. It's just not, you know, not always kind of, like, understanding that there might be information associated with that. A good example I give is, you know, sometimes someone will give a copy of a document from Texas. It's, like, a good model policy. Right? But underneath that record that they get, it's gonna be labeled as Texas. It's gonna be labeled by the original author. August most people don't see it. There's ways you can change that, but then they'll start drafting maybe over that Word document as a start. Right? And then all of a sudden, it becomes a policy that's issued out, but the metadata behind it is still the state of Texas. You know? And and so it's, you know, picture five years later and someone's going, is this real? Like, this is a Vermont record. And then we have to look at child custody. We have to look at it looks and feels from the visual part, but the metadata says else wise. So then we have to look at where did this where did what systems did it go in and out of? And that's just hard that's harder to do. It's a little bit of forensics to do that. But we do that for paper records too, but they tend to have yeah. We just recently received some former governors because legal counsel used to take them home. [Member Rebecca White ]: And now will they Now [Tanya Marshall ]: we have became a class to have a We had enough time to spend them. [Chair Brian Collamore ]: I've been interested. You'll see people taking a tour of the building holding these devices up to their ears. [Tanya Marshall ]: That's one of our new things. [Chair Brian Collamore ]: And shame on me that I never did it, but [Member Alison Clarkson ]: I never have. Well, it's totally been available for the last couple of years. Well, it's been [Chair Brian Collamore ]: good for me. Ten years anyway. Did [Member Rebecca White ]: you work [Tanya Marshall ]: on me? We've only had [Chair Brian Collamore ]: You don't have anything [Tanya Marshall ]: to do with that, [Member Alison Clarkson ]: but but do you need it? [Tanya Marshall ]: No. That's weird. That's what he say it again. You describe what you saw on [Chair Brian Collamore ]: It's like a history of the building, but they're listening to something. [Member Alison Clarkson ]: They're listening to each painting. They're they're Yeah. Is that what it is? Every painting, except being in a museum. [Tanya Marshall ]: Yeah. [Member Alison Clarkson ]: Well, it's like having a Yeah. [Tanya Marshall ]: I mean, we're not in a museum. I mean, let's be frank. We're in a warehouse. Right? We we kind [Member Alison Clarkson ]: of You are. [Tanya Marshall ]: We're in a museum. Well yeah. But after, you know, District of Columbia was kind of behind us, and so was Indiana. But Indiana's getting this grandiose, you know, but I wouldn't say we need it, you know, grandiose building, but District of Columbia is getting one. So we're gonna be bottom of the building thing. And so you're not gonna see much except for, like, two exhibits that David, the state curator put up in our building to walk around with that. But what we have talked about, is to bring visibility to information across the state is, the ability for people to have, like, an application that bigger geographically in the area that would tell you more about that particular area. That's right. Certain sets of records. I know when I testified on the Eugenics, resolution a few years ago, we had talked about the different kinds of records that came from the Eugenics survey that was, associated with the professor at at UVM, not part of a UVM project, but associated there. And, you know, surveys so the ability to see people, you know, graphically to see different parts of Burlington, for example, but tie them into records. So if they wanted to see more, they could actually visually pull them up online and read them because there was a survey. That's the kind of stuff that we wanna bring more visibility to, and it'll probably be through that kind of format versus that's, you know, just an audio walkthrough. Yep. Because we're we're paper based versus visual based for that. And there's so many things you can do with that platform, and so it's it's really about, you know, kind of however we have to make those connections with you know, we have technical expertise, but we can't always get through some of the technical Yeah. Layers that happen within state government to enable that more effectively for us. But those are the exciting things that I like to [Member Alison Clarkson ]: bring visibility I I love getting watching you get excited about something. Right? [Tanya Marshall ]: Well, we're we've been working with a professor, the Maine University of Maryland who did that for Ash Bill for reparations and showing the redlining and was able to combine it with real property data from that city. And they their reparation committee actually came up with a calculated value to show individuals who replaced, you know, and lost their homes because of redlining. And so it started with this graphical information so you could layer more things. And as, you know, technology improves, it became more visible that they could run and and extract. That's what we've been working on with him with some of the AI extraction from extraction from older sets of records. What can we extract from some of these records that's gonna give more visibility to the past to be able to help inform the future? And we've done that, you know, more just talked about it with agency human services for pulling their older sets of records that are coming into the archives. So it's not gonna, like, breach a privacy component, but what can we learn and understand more about how we, you know, look at social, you know, and welfare and social work that we've done in the state and what can we do different, but also for certain generations. Was it geographically based in a particular judge that made certain kinds of determination that affected them now that that individual, that they're they're they're, you know, generations on that. And that's a key part of where we really are going right now and looking for that kind of momentum within state government because, you know, our crackdown sounds I'm gonna paraphrase. I'm actually gonna say the word my predecessor did, and I can't believe I'm saying anything. Sexy, that's what he used to come in. Oh, thank you. Scream. We actually oftentimes, I'm just thinking, you know, it's, oh, you're just going into involved in that. But that's it's the visibility to really inform the future. And that's really what we want on whether it's, you know, the negative aspects of what we're seeing for parts of federal data and that, you know, accessibility, but also bring that visibility to people about their own past and history and geographically, you know, what happened here. You know, we're sitting here. Wouldn't it be nice to go there and be able to say, I wanna see photographs from all the different, you know, versions of the statehouse? Yeah. Oh, I now would pique my interest in about that legislator. I mean, we have all the data to do that. Mhmm. [Member Alison Clarkson ]: But you don't have any of all those legislators yet, but we're gonna work on that. [Member Rebecca White ]: Well, she's got so many projects for you. [Member Alison Clarkson ]: Well, I mean, that is really a good time to get platform, you know Which is our legislative websites and legislative slideshow since we started to do it about two thousand seven or eight. [Chair Brian Collamore ]: Tanya, thank you very much. [Tanya Marshall ]: Well, thank you for your time. I really appreciate it. I thank you for the inviting me Sure. [Member Alison Clarkson ]: To share. I just have to say, I love Tanya calling the archives the source of truth. And I think maintaining the integrity of the archives really underscores your being the source of truth. [Tanya Marshall ]: Thank you. I mean, that's what we really Well, you created us, so thank you for doing that. I really appreciate that. [Member Alison Clarkson ]: Well Thank you. And it's a good field [Tanya Marshall ]: trip. Yeah. [Chair Brian Collamore ]: Okay. We'll call it a day. Thank you very much. Thank

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