SmartTranscript of House Transportation - 2025-05-09 - 1:40PM

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[Chair Matt Walker]: We are live again on Friday. Is it still Friday? It seems like Friday, May ninth twenty twenty five, house transportation. We are talking about miscellaneous motor vehicles law. We sort of closed up right before lunch. My perspective is that I wanna make sure the committee sees where we're at, that we have going through all of the sections that came over to us from on s one twenty three, we have checked off and completed either adjusting, editing, adding, subtracting, pulling out a few sections. Everything that was there has been addressed. All of the sections that were there, our numbers have changed as we pulled out some sections. But would I at least agree across the committee that we've been through everything that's on s one twenty three, and we have thumbs up every pretty every section in there. Yes. So now will be the time from here forward is if you want to move officially to add something to the bill, this is your chance to do that. We've heard two or three potential options in the middle of at least one. So I would open that up to say, are we bringing anything else into the DMV bill Or is I slinging from the vehicle bill? So [Vice Chair Timothy R. Corcoran II]: Are you looking for me to stand up? [Chair Matt Walker]: I'm looking for you to say I think so. [Member Patricia McCoy]: Yes. I want [Chair Matt Walker]: you to I I know you want I know [Vice Chair Timothy R. Corcoran II]: you have one, so let's let's do it. Out there. Which has my name. I don't know if that's a good thing or not. And it's it's operating the bicycles around intersections. Primarily, that's that's the piece. And I just wanna say a few things about it. Number one, this has been in front of this committee now for three years. And we, last year, asked the DMV to put in a report on the possibility of doing this, which they provided to us. We've had a lot of testimony this year. We opened it up to everyone who wanted to provide testimony. We had indications there were a couple people that were not for it who, in the end, either were then neutral or decided they weren't going to testify. So we we've also had a couple people change from being against, now being for it. Everyone that we've had testify was either positive report or neutral, including the agency of transportation. We had the agency of transportation present. We had the state police, Department of Public Safety present, And we had the three primary biking groups in Vermont, Locomotion who does probably the most education on biking of anybody, for Vermont. We had the State Mountain Bike Association [Member Phil Pouch]: Right. Positive. [Vice Chair Timothy R. Corcoran II]: We had the Kingdom Trails Bike Association, positive. We had Burlington City come in. They're for it. Burlington organization for bike and ped, the council, was for it. We had data prior to the after the state did their report, there's additional data from the National Highway Transportation Safety Group, who in December sent, a report positive. The safety side is positive for the eleven states that have this was about a twenty five percent improvement in safety on intersections. It was a question about children, and it was noted that that data included all bicycle incidents, which would include children. So it doesn't show any increased risk to children. Our state police said having standardized rules throughout Vermont clearly was better on their side. So they work for that. It certainly will enhance our bicycle tourism. What else I've noted that when we rate our state in safety, we're twenty sixth in the nation, so we have a long way to go for safer roads. This supports the twenty one million dollars we're investing in bike ped activities. And I think there's a theme here, over the last three years, and that is initial testimony was like, yeah. Some people fart. I'm not quite sure. I'm a little worried. And I would say the same was true for me. When I first heard about this, I was against it for my own reasons. And then over the last couple of years, as I've ridden my bike, I've realized this this intersection will be a lot safer if I could push that up. This this would be a lot easier for me to get through these intersections if I could do it this way. So, you know, I'm just pointing to this committee that we might have our own opinions on things, which we bring, but, clearly, all the testimony, and we opened it up to a lot of people, a lot of organizations, national, state, local folks. And, by far, they were this is positive. There's no indication whatsoever that this would not that this would be not a safe move, that this is a positive move for bikers, for for drivers, for everybody to clear those intersections in a much more efficient way. So that's what I'll say with that. Representative Wood? [Member Mollie S. Burke]: I just wanna follow-up on that. You know, I I too was a little hesitant [Vice Chair Timothy R. Corcoran II]: at this [Member Mollie S. Burke]: regarding the Idaho stop. I felt like the testimony last week was very convincing, particularly, you know, the highway safety report showing that this improved safety in the states that have this have adopted this. So, I found that very convincing. And I also think that I really like how we will have a unified law throughout the state of Vermont. We're already doing this in Burlington. And that this would be great for the state of Vermont from a tourism messaging opportunity that we are a bike friendly state. I think this this law kind of goes in line with being a bike friendly state. It doesn't cost us anything. So it feels like a positive thing that we can put into the DMV bill and, you know, maybe get a little positive PR for for the state, increase safety, and be uniform about our laws throughout the state so there's less confusion. So I I feel strongly in support of this, and I urge [Member Phil Pouch]: the committee members to support it also. [Chair Matt Walker]: Representative Bart. [Member Kenneth "Ken" Wells]: I guess I for those comments, I was opposed to it too because I'm the person who, like, you gotta follow all of the traffic rules because you wanna set a good example because a lot of people do not. So it's stop at a stop sign even if nobody was there. And, you know and I think the issue is really the safety issue. And, you know, bicycles are really you know, we tend our lives in our hands. We part of the bike, really. You know, we think about the the vulnerability from the vulnerable user with a car. And why not give bicycles a little bit of an advantage that might improve safety? That's all. I mean, I think that that's really what this is about. And I don't know if the objections have to do is, well, we're not following the traffic rules. It's gonna be confusing. But I think, you know, given time, we will just get used to this is this is what people do. And and then if you get more people biking, you're gonna have safer roads too, and people will understand, oh, these are the procedures that I was was following. So I'm just you know, like, it's something we can do to do safety. [Member Chloe Tomlinson]: Representative Waddell? [Member Phil Pouch]: Yes. I think that this will will make it much safer for, cyclists on bicycles and, and also just generally at intersections. And one of the things that really got my attention when we heard testimony was, and and I have experienced this in in real life myself as a cyclist, how irritated drivers can be when you have a cyclist, who's obviously going much more slowly, you know, having to get back clipped in and then start up and, you know, you might lose the light. There's a lot of things that are that, irritate drivers. And, cyclists are never the winners in an altercation with a driver ever. And, I I think, you know, if we were gonna be sharing the roads, this this is a common sense thing that makes that better for everybody and increases everybody's safety at the same time. [Vice Chair Timothy R. Corcoran II]: Representative McCollum. So [Member Chloe Tomlinson]: all of you know that I'm opposed to this bill, and I [Chair Matt Walker]: Addition. Just addition. Not its own billing at. [Vice Chair Timothy R. Corcoran II]: Go ahead. [Chair Matt Walker]: The amendment or addition to the to the, you know, section [Member Chloe Tomlinson]: I'll be in the I'm sorry. [Chair Matt Walker]: I shouldn't have interrupted. But [Member Chloe Tomlinson]: I I think it was solidified. Maybe I misheard what the state trooper said the other day, but he specifically said that we need to legislate to the lowest common denominator, and he felt that was children on bicycles. So all I keep hearing in this legislature is that children's brains aren't fully developed until twenty five, and they don't have, you know, the wherewithal to really understand things. So that that solidified it for me. If I have a six year old that thinks that, you know, maybe I can make it. I know my light is red, but my car seems pretty far away from me. I'm gonna fly through this intersection. And I get it. It and also the confusion of diff you know, obeying the signals. I live in rural Vermont on Route thirty, which is a narrow road with maybe this much for a bike lane. And we have bike bicyclists, you know, the I don't know what you call them, like, like, twenty of them that come through, the tours that come through up Route thirty. And they do not follow the two people abreast. If they are taking up the road and they will not move and people get pissed off, and now you're gonna have them flying through the intersection because they all wanna stay together. And the white is now you know, they're gonna go anyway. They're gonna keep going. It's I absolutely disagree with this law. If you're gonna make them follow every law, follow them. I did tell representative Tausch from Pinesburg if there was a section in this amendment that allowed bicyclists to press the crosswalk and cross with the crosswalk, I'd be perfectly fine with that. But I absolutely disagree with them allowing them to make the decision if that light is red that they can go. Because I know what they're gonna do. It's they're gonna slow, and they're gonna think I can make it. I see there's a car there, but I I know I can make it through before that car goes through. And, you know, I don't know where you know, Idaho is a wide open state. We are not. A lot of curves, a lot of hills, a lot of everything in Vermont. So I still am opposed to this bill. Amendment. I apologize. [Chair Matt Walker]: And then My bad. Representative Wells, and then Initially, when [Member James "Jim" Casey]: I heard this, I was neutral. I feel for bikes. They are defenseless out there. They can get nailed. And I don't ride a bike, but I drove motorcycles my whole life. Still do. That's a whole different thing I know. I talked to, Jason Bingham, a friend of mine. He's a New York City Police chief. He talked about the lowest common denominator for legislation, and his phrase was, I don't need ten year olds going through stop signs on their bikes. [Chair Matt Walker]: So I'm against them now. Representative Burke, did you have your hand back up again? No. [Member Kenneth "Ken" Wells]: Well, I was just gonna say, you know, we also need to remember that not all cyclists are, like you know, cyclists who, like, are riding, you know, along tours. A lot of people ride bikes for transportation. Want to ride bikes for transportation and wanna feel safe. There's a lot of issues in our town about that and the nice group that's working on that. That work coalition for active transportation. But it is there there are a lot of issues around affordability and also transportation uses a bike for transportation. [Chair Matt Walker]: Just a sec. I wanna make still wanna make sure that Molly or representative Burke is I'm sorry. [Member James "Jim" Casey]: I'm joking. [Member Kenneth "Ken" Wells]: Sorry. I'm joking. Sorry. Go ahead. Sorry. Go [Chair Matt Walker]: ahead. I'm sorry. I'm judging. [Member Kenneth "Ken" Wells]: I don't know what I wanna [Chair Matt Walker]: make sure that you're you're all set. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to bring attention to it. I'm ready. It's your it's your four until you say otherwise. [Member Patricia McCoy]: So Thank [Member Kenneth "Ken" Wells]: you for your concern. [Member Patricia McCoy]: I have to ask the the law enforcement officer about if he had ever given anybody on a bicycle ticket. He said no. He looked like he'd been in [Member James "Jim" Casey]: the home for a while. [Member Patricia McCoy]: It wasn't his first day. So I I'm a little concerned about the you know, I like to [Chair Matt Walker]: see things kinda consistent. You know what I mean? [Member Patricia McCoy]: It's like a stop sign is a stop sign. It's not a yield sign. I just don't, you know, that's that. I guess some I would go on and on, you know, where I'm at. So [Chair Matt Walker]: Is anybody else coming? Is Chloe is Chloe there? I just wanna make sure if she can [Member Candice White]: Yeah. I'm I'm here. [Chair Matt Walker]: You don't have to speak. I just wanna make sure you were there because but you can speak. I just wanna make sure you that that's all. I I can't tell if [Member Candice White]: you raised [Chair Matt Walker]: your hand or not. [Member Candice White]: Thanks. Yeah. I'll I'll say that I [Chair Matt Walker]: And I shouldn't have called the court. [Member Candice White]: I have, in listening to the testimony, not heard any substantive critiques or concerns that haven't been addressed. I heard the VSP testimony as in support of this amendment. And my own personal experience, you know, I also suggest support for this. I think that safety is a really big concern, and the fact that, national study indicates that this actually improves traffic safety means that this is a really big opportunity for us to do something to make the streets safer in Vermont. And I didn't hear anything that makes me think we shouldn't proceed with it. So after all the testimony, in committee and also written testimony, I I feel very clear and strong that this would be a a good step forward for Vermont. [Chair Matt Walker]: Anybody else have anything you wanna add? I guess it would be if someone wants to or this would be what we've done with all the other sections is we're ready to take a vote? [Vice Chair Timothy R. Corcoran II]: Make a motion to approve the amendment. [Chair Matt Walker]: All those in favor of the amendment? One, two, three, four, five. So that is means the rest are willing we can perhaps raise our hands or not, but you're opposed, I guess. Your your thumbs is down or your hand is up. One, two, three, four, five. Everybody see five to five. So we at five to five, we're Ten million. Not gonna be able to add it to this year's miscellaneous motor vehicles bill. It is that's what it is. And we took a lot of testimony. I appreciate your effort. Everybody will be back here. We'll see where it goes from there. We're going to I'm sorry. I have another. [Member Phil Pouch]: Yes, mister mister chair. I as I recall, the pouch amendment had two pieces of it. There was the Idaho stop, but there was also enhancing crosswalks. And I wanted to move that we consider that that portion of the amendment separately and see if there is support for moving that portion along even if there is it's very clear there's not support at this time for the Idaho stock. So here's how to [Vice Chair Timothy R. Corcoran II]: I'll I'll comment. I mean, I thought that, you know, that would be a possibility, but all of these changes require an education piece. In fact, this amendment had an entire year of education prior to it working because I knew that was a key piece of having it be successful. So I'm afraid if we go with, let's say, just the crosswalk, then we have to have that education out there. And then, you know, if we're gonna piecemeal this over the next ten years because I expect it will eventually pass because the data's there. So I would, you know, say that, you know, having to do all that education for one piece, I don't know. I'm not sure it can be split at this point anyway. So [Chair Matt Walker]: Okay. Does anybody else have any comment about that? [Member James "Jim" Casey]: Could you remind me what that does? I know we're December, [Vice Chair Timothy R. Corcoran II]: I believe. Allows bikers to utilize the pedestrian crosswalks Okay. Which they can't do now. [Member Phil Pouch]: So if I could thank you. So this would be in instances where there is a crosswalk, which is, you know, a a smaller universe of places, unfortunately, currently. This would allow somebody on a slight on a bicycle to cross with when the pedestrians cross. So they would be clearing the intersection. But I think in a way that makes intuitive sense to everybody [Member James "Jim" Casey]: Cross the same time. [Member Phil Pouch]: At the same time. I mean, it it I think it it would not be confusing to a driver to have cyclists clearing the intersection. And this was this really made quite a bit of sense to me because of the testimony that we've heard from somebody in Burlington who described not being able to do that, having a queue of cars behind him. He was first in line to cross the street, having to get clipped back in and then, you know, go and then annoying all sorts of people who couldn't even see the reason for delay. And so they that just seemed to make intuitive sense that when the crosswalk is going that you at least [Member James "Jim" Casey]: Move everybody. [Member Phil Pouch]: Allow a bicep move everybody that's not a car. You know? Because and we all have the experience of sometimes it it can take a long time for some a pedestrian to clear the crosswalk. So if you're you're then creating another delay by the bicyclist, then, you know, you're potentially causing somebody to sit through several cycles in a in a light and, you know, and that's, you know, potentially more emissions, you know, too, you know, idling and stuff. And, you know, we have these are challenges that we face in our town because we have, you know, you know, intersections that are small, and we're all trying to get through them. And it's it can get complicated. So this is sort of a a daily experience for [Member James "Jim" Casey]: Everybody moving at once Yeah. Sounds logical. [Chair Matt Walker]: Yeah. Well, I guess I would say at this point, I can't tell you whether we're gonna vote on the whole bill or not. I really need you to [Vice Chair Timothy R. Corcoran II]: And you [Chair Matt Walker]: know We have to wait for the next conference committee. It's Friday afternoon. I I get that. I will try to find an answer to that in the next bit as to how the t bill may or may not apply or whatnot. But so I need you to hang around a little bit longer. I will try to do that as quickly as I can, and, we are adjourned.
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