SmartTranscript of HCI-2025-05-21-2:00 PM

[Chair Alice Emmons]: Welcome, folks. This is House Directions and Institutions Committee. It's Wednesday, May twenty first, almost two o'clock. We are meeting to go over proposed language on the bill that was vetoed by the governor h two nineteen, which deals with putting kids apart program, extending that to all of our facilities. The bill puts in statute that that a particular programs like that would be in statute required by DOC to provide. The governor vetoed that based on some language that we had that required the commissioner of DOC to submit in his budget proposal to the administration in the fall during that process to submit funding for this particular program. That's what the administration had a problem with, but it was unconstitutional. Our legislative council indicates differently than that. The administration, I ran into them Friday afternoon as I was leaving the building. We talked a little bit. They said they had language. I said, well, send me the language. We'll go from there. They sent me the language on Monday or Tuesday. Here, I know which. Monday. And so we had some members of our committee. We had Kate Lakes as the sponsor of the bill, Sean as the reporter of the bill, and James as vice chair of the committee, and myself, work with Ben on what the administration was proposing, the language change, and we can shut that on. [Vice Chair James Gregoire]: Well, there. Yeah. [Chair Alice Emmons]: As then in going through this, we met yesterday afternoon. And going through it, we also cleaned up some language in the bill itself that wasn't connected to the detail. So I'm gonna hand this out. I'm sure that I have a copy. And you have your copy. Right? And you have your copy. [Ben Novogrowski]: I did. [Connor Casey]: Yes. [Ben Novogrowski]: Also, posting on our web page. Yeah. [Speaker 4 ]: That's that's [Ben Novogrowski]: Yeah. Your priorities straight, though, representative. [Vice Chair James Gregoire]: Yeah. That's true. Topic first. [Ben Novogrowski]: Thank you. [Chair Alice Emmons]: So the first change is on just wanna make sure. [Ben Novogrowski]: Yes. I mean, if you want, I can do it. Yeah. [Chair Alice Emmons]: Why don't you [Ben Novogrowski]: For the record, Ben Novogrowski from the oncology [Speaker 4 ]: Right here, Bob. Council. [Ben Novogrowski]: It's okay. So the first change is the beginning of section two of the bill. So this would be lines eleven and twelve. And this was the reference that representative Emmons made to the the language of the administration had a problem with. So now rather than requiring that the commissioner provide funding to provide and sustain trauma informed family support services and programming, pursuant to section one twenty eight of this title and include his proposals to the governor to consider in development of the governor's proposal. It just takes part of that language, which is the commissioner has the responsibility to just provide to provide and sustain those family support services outlined in section one twenty eight of the bill. [Chair Alice Emmons]: That's the administration's proposed line. [Vice Chair James Gregoire]: So basically just the word funding falling out? [Chair Alice Emmons]: No. The way let me read Yeah. Yeah. The original bill because you gotta have the original bill that we passed in front of you to understand this. We had that the commissioner is charged with the following responsibilities. To include funding to sufficiently provide and sustain trauma informed sports agencies and programming pursuant to section one hundred and twenty eight of this title in the department's annual proposed budget for the next subsequent fiscal year for the purposes of developing the state budget required to be submitted to the general assembly. So that last piece is what was taken out. The first part of that was that we had, where it says to sufficiently provide and sustain was kept. So it says to provide and sustain. [Ben Novogrowski]: So the the operative effect of this is that the commissioner is just responsible to provide and sustain the program. [Chair Alice Emmons]: It doesn't isn't required to submit in the DOC's proposed budget request to the governor. It doesn't our language did not lock in the governor putting it in the budget. It only said that DOC would propose funding for this program when they submitted their budget request to the fixed floor during the fall. [Ben Novogrowski]: The the just to elucidate the constitutional issue as presented by the administration, they felt that that was encroaching on the governor's constitutional authority to propose the budget. That's their position. Right? [Chair Alice Emmons]: It's their position of council as a different position. Not telling the governor to put it in the budget. We're only saying to the commissioner when the governor asked for your proposed budget, you, employee Yeah. Money in your proposed budget, doesn't mean the governor is gonna accept it or not accept it. Not saying. Just saying the commissioner would include funding for this program in their proposed budget. [Ben Novogrowski]: They also do not outline how much was considered sufficient. [Chair Alice Emmons]: The commissioner of a department does not make the final decision in terms of the budget for their depart they propose what they need. It is the fifth floor that makes that decision to be presented in the governor's budget. And then So [Ben Novogrowski]: they gather out proposals of the various agencies and departments into their one singular proposal. So there's kind of a stopgap, you know, within [Chair Alice Emmons]: When the budget gets presented to the legislature, then the legislature is the one that really can appropriate. It's not the administration that appropriates the budget. It is the legislative branch. That's true on the state level, and it's true on the federal level. [Ben Novogrowski]: Mhmm. Power of the purses with the legislature, which is the appropriation. Power of the the spending clause permits the governor to spend a duly appropriated money. [Chair Alice Emmons]: I will call sheet out. [Ben Novogrowski]: K. [Chair Alice Emmons]: We'll see. So that was a big change. Questions? [Ben Novogrowski]: The big sheet. On my Linda, highlight some of the other changes. If you scroll down further on the same page, I'm in section three, subsection two, section one twenty eight, a little tweaking of the language before it read that the Department of Corrections shall establish a family support program to provide free parenting and family support to all incarcerated individuals who are parents and guardians. This has been revised to now say, to provide free parenting and family support at each correctional facility to all incarcerated individuals who are parents and guardians regardless of gender. [Chair Alice Emmons]: We wanna make sure it's at both male and female facilities, not just at one, not the other. [Ben Novogrowski]: Mhmm. [Chair Alice Emmons]: That was our intent. [Ben Novogrowski]: And then another change is that there used to be old subsection c, c, which made contained the contingent on funding provision. Since there is no longer a requirement for the, commissioner to include it in his budget proposal, Subsection c, the contingent on funding was struck altogether, and the other subsections were just bumped up in order. So now subsection c is the annual report language that was previously subsection d. Sorry. On the top of page three, line one, which says institutions and on judiciary. Is it the the institutions and two judiciary? Mhmm. No? No. So the the formal committee names are House Committee on Corrections and Institutions, on Judiciary, or so on and so forth. [Chair Alice Emmons]: A Senate. Why? Read the whole sentence. The department shall submit a written report to the House Committees. House committees. [Ben Novogrowski]: Oh, committees. Yeah. [Chair Alice Emmons]: Corrections and institutions on judiciary and the senate committees on institutions and on judiciary. [Ben Novogrowski]: Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. I'm sorry. I misled that. [Chair Alice Emmons]: So we eliminated we had language contingent on funding. The family support program established shall operate only to the extent funds are appropriated for its operation. We felt that was sort of I can't pronounce it. It was sort of whatever. Next, it's superfluous. [Ben Novogrowski]: Unnecessary. Unnecessary. Unnecessary. Screening. [Chair Alice Emmons]: Screening. Unnecessary if we're not a motion to submit one agent's budget proposal, and they agreed to that. And then there was one other change. [Ben Novogrowski]: Well, not a change. They proposed the change. [Chair Alice Emmons]: Proposed the change, but we didn't accept it. [Ben Novogrowski]: Right. When they wanted to strike in the the annual report, which is in subsection c in the subdivision one, they had struck that the funding would be included in the report, and it is still included so that everybody knows how much the program costs. [Chair Alice Emmons]: They have to report annually to us on or before July first funding participation outcome of the program. [Ben Novogrowski]: And that way, you know, the I think the policy rationale behind having that is that since there's an intent expressed to expand the statewide by twenty twenty eight, Every year, if you get an annual report, let's say so this year, they have the the two facilities. Let's say next year, they expanded to two more. The funding difference between that and that way, it helps you project and anticipate needs, going forward. [Chair Alice Emmons]: You have a question, Connor? You're thinking. [Connor Casey]: Yeah. Well, I'm I'm just wondering, Ben. You know, the constitutional issue is obviously still disagreement on this. Typically, like, you know, I would think it would be, you know, common for us to pass things that require a commissioner to, you know, fund a program like in their instruction for the governor there. So is it is it is there any danger in, like, seeding ground on this one with the constitutionality? I guess nobody's admitting that, like, their side is wrong or anything. But is this gonna create, like, further problems, you know? You [Ben Novogrowski]: know, I don't have a crystal ball. All I would say is that the language that was considered problematic by the administration has been signed into law in other forms already. So there is statutory precedent for it being in the green books. Like, so for instance, act forty of twenty twenty three two years ago, which, you know, partly created the coordinated justice reform advisory council, which just to refresh everyone's memory was sort of gonna be the next iteration of justice reinvestment that you had all the the players on the state level when it came to the criminal justice system get together and make recommendations for funding and programs and things like that. Well, in, if you go scroll up into in twenty eight VSA one zero two c, I think if you look at c twenty three, it says that the commissioner, shall include the recommendations of that advisory group in his budget proposal to the governor. It's very similar language. The difference is actually just the entity that the commissioner is adopting the recommendations. I would actually argue that I said that. That the the the Department of Corrections, when you look at it here, is they were the ones that had to come up with the dollar amount, all that. I would actually argue that if anything is more constitutional than those other provisions, which I still my legal advice is just that it is constitutional regardless. You know, the administration has the power to veto, and they disagreed based on their own analysis, and that's the process. So I don't know if it'll be problematic in the future, but I think you can rely upon the fact that it's already in law in other places. Gotcha. [Chair Alice Emmons]: Thanks. Kevin? [Member Kevin Winter]: My memory was that this bill was intending to extend into at least one more facility to cover the narrow population. [Chair Alice Emmons]: That's what we had the money for. Right. But the intent was to do it system wide. [Ben Novogrowski]: Eventually. [Chair Alice Emmons]: But we all eventually, we only had the money to fulfill what was currently happening at the women's facility. And then they had done a survey last year, and it looked like at this point, Newport would be a good fit to start expanding. And then the goal was through our language in their bill was to extend it to all [Speaker 4 ]: Yeah. So facilities. [Ben Novogrowski]: Remember, if you look at section four, which is on on page three, so there's the intent in section one, which says by twenty twenty eight, we expand to all. Section four says the first two are gonna be the women's facility at Chittenden and then the men's facility at Northern State. Very good. That does help me because on page one, line eighteen, it speaks to support of each correctional facility and all individuals. Next slide, Alex. Mhmm. Yeah. That's ultimately the goal. [Member Kevin Winter]: So that that's the that's the end result. This is saying right. That's We had it [Speaker 4 ]: This is funded. [Chair Alice Emmons]: Incarcerated individual. We had it to all as well, incarcerated individuals, and the intent was to expand it to all facilities. [Ben Novogrowski]: Cool. And if you have any other curiosity on the constitutional question, I'm happy to answer it now or offline, one on one. So we presented this to the administration, Jade Johnson, the attorney for [Chair Alice Emmons]: the administration, and Jason Malucci, who is the legislative liaison. And they agreed. They agreed to it, So I said we bring it back to the full committee here for a vote. And I feel we do need a vote. We'd like to do it by vote call for that. And the goal is to find a vehicle, put those in. And I've had conversations with the chairs, the two chairs of the judiciary committees, and we're hoping to have it added to s one zero nine. It would have to be done on the senate side because the bill is over there now for that. And then the language would be given to the chair of senate. Questions, comments from anybody? [Ben Novogrowski]: I'm I'm good now. I'm not a constitutional attorney, but my my objection when it came out of here happened to be the same as the cause for the veto. So [Chair Alice Emmons]: Alright. Who's thoughts, before? [Vice Chair James Gregoire]: I mean, honestly, anyway, this weakens our position. Right? Like, yeah, it it galls me a little bit, but it doesn't hurt us, does it? It's always our understanding because we're gonna be. Yeah. [Ben Novogrowski]: May I ask how the clerk should label this vote? I mean, you passed it out of committee at h two nineteen, then went to the house and sent it and came back. I would advise that there's no actual bill to vote upon. This is almost like akin to a straw poll, I think, at this point, but unless you have other thoughts. [Chair Alice Emmons]: I was wondering if we should do a roll call on it or just do a straw poll. I'm [Ben Novogrowski]: Can we do a roll call, and I can put it in as [Chair Alice Emmons]: Orphan language? [Ben Novogrowski]: Yeah. Yeah. [Chair Alice Emmons]: Veto override on h two nineteen? [Ben Novogrowski]: Yeah. You could label it that way. I mean, you could potentially label it maybe as s one zero nine since that's the perspective perspective vehicle, but might jump in the gun a little bit just in case. You know, because the other the other alternative is if it doesn't make it into s one zero nine Right. We'd have to reintroduce it as a new bill and suspend the rules in both chambers to push it through, which is more complicated. Although the administration has said that they're gonna take care of things this year nonetheless. Right? That's the message we got. Yeah. They would. Yeah. [Vice Chair James Gregoire]: Yeah. Yes. [Ben Novogrowski]: They they said it on behalf. We would [Chair Alice Emmons]: send Just try to think what the motion should be. Move to accept the orphan language [Speaker 4 ]: to establish the family support program within our incarcerated facilities? Yeah. So I got a question that you or Ben can answer because clearly you both know what you're talking about. What is orphan language in this? What does that mean in this? [Ben Novogrowski]: So orphan language is literally language that doesn't have a [Chair Alice Emmons]: Oh. [Ben Novogrowski]: A a a bill to call home yet. Sort of sound. So a lot of times, like, the way I've encountered this previously is if, you know, really, at this point in session, if there are bills that haven't moved, but there's, momentum behind a provision of a bill, you can draft it as orphan language to attach to a vehicle, which is essentially what we're doing here with two nineteen, which makes me I think as I think about it more, I think this is more akin to a straw poll because they're you're not voting on anything technically. There's nothing to vote on [Chair Alice Emmons]: We don't need to vote. [Ben Novogrowski]: A bill. You know, I think what might have what might happen if this would be for the judiciary committee is that if you wanted to do a drive through once they get the bill back and do a straw poll at that point, you put you don't necessarily have to. And you could this actually might even be helping with that process since you've already sort of vetted it so it doesn't have to come back here again until it gets returned from the senate. So you're just asking [Chair Alice Emmons]: Just a straw poll or do an actual roll call? [Ben Novogrowski]: I think straw poll. I don't think you can roll call it. Bill that doesn't exist. Yeah. Yeah. Because Because and and procedurally with a with a bill, so let's say h two nineteen that's already been vetoed, you can't [Chair Alice Emmons]: You can't do it. [Speaker 4 ]: It's [Ben Novogrowski]: kinda dead at that point. [Chair Alice Emmons]: It's dead. That's the number of who stands. [Ben Novogrowski]: Yeah. So you wouldn't be voting on that bill. We're essentially just creating language to hand over to judiciary and then if they wanna So that's why I think it's drop where it's appropriate. [Chair Alice Emmons]: Okay. So you can tear that up. [Ben Novogrowski]: I was ready, though. You were ready. [Chair Alice Emmons]: So I'd like to see a show of hands for folks who support the language we just walked through. K. All those in favor. All those opposed, please raise your hand. [Speaker 4 ]: K. Eleven zero zero. Oh, Yeah. [Chair Alice Emmons]: Yeah. We do. [Ben Novogrowski]: Good to have you. [Chair Alice Emmons]: So It's [Ben Novogrowski]: not saying all the facts. [Speaker 4 ]: So it's just awful. [Chair Alice Emmons]: Yep. Got it. Should I bring this down to Nader Maybe I should bring it down to Nader. [Ben Novogrowski]: Yeah. I think we bring it to Nader, and then Eric and I can handle it from there. Yeah. [Chair Alice Emmons]: Let me get another paper copy. I can bring it down to You're [Ben Novogrowski]: about to keep. Yeah. Exactly. [Chair Alice Emmons]: I wanna keep mine. [Member Kevin Winter]: K. [Chair Alice Emmons]: K. Anything else? [Ben Novogrowski]: I'm [Chair Alice Emmons]: actually got anything else to what are you doing? [Connor Casey]: No. I'm just laughing. Okay. [Ben Novogrowski]: I'm trying [Speaker 4 ]: to sing for something else [Connor Casey]: to do. [Ben Novogrowski]: We didn't laugh. You do. [Chair Alice Emmons]: I'm just saying, what do we do? Tomorrow's Thursday. You know? Hey. What do we do? What do we do next week? We don't have any. [Speaker 4 ]: Still gotta go to Windsor. [Ben Novogrowski]: You still got the football equipment? [Speaker 4 ]: Windsor is a long trip. I thought Oh, we can't get to the house. Well, it's right [Ben Novogrowski]: to improve complicated state hospitals. [Speaker 4 ]: I thought I thought they How [Ben Novogrowski]: do you wanna get into state mobile? No. [Speaker 4 ]: What's it then? They said it was very complicated state of security and stuff to get into with a large group of people in the state hospital. [Chair Alice Emmons]: They're not allowing groups [Speaker 4 ]: to come [Chair Alice Emmons]: into the state hospital So from what I've heard because they had some issues. [Ben Novogrowski]: Yeah. [Chair Alice Emmons]: Right. [Connor Casey]: We're not gonna tilt time. Could we maybe get the state librarian in to talk about library books and presents? I'd rather go to Windsor. [Chair Alice Emmons]: Winter would be great. The problem is it's a long day. [Ben Novogrowski]: Oh, of course. [Chair Alice Emmons]: We don't know you know, the schedule in this building is gonna be on again, off again, on again, off again with [Ben Novogrowski]: But not with long periods. Yeah. [Chair Alice Emmons]: I mean, we just don't know what's gonna pop up at this end of the session. That's the problem. [Ben Novogrowski]: Well, first of all, we have that hour long meeting in the morning or subcommittees. That's tomorrow tomorrow morning. Yes. A commentary. And then once we get back together, would you want us to come back and look for what we've already discussed? [Chair Alice Emmons]: Yeah. So we can keep working on that. [Ben Novogrowski]: I think it's it's actually two separate meetings that are contiguous. Yes. Otherwise, we would have more than a quorum sitting there. [Chair Alice Emmons]: Right. Yes. Right. [Ben Novogrowski]: It's true [Chair Alice Emmons]: because you get [Ben Novogrowski]: Nine to nine thirty and nine thirty to ten. Yep. Yes. And first, it's telecommunications. The second piece is commensurate. Yes. Okay. Great. But we do wanna be that back. [Member Kevin Winter]: And maybe that's why they left me off so we don't have a block. [Speaker 4 ]: So I [Ben Novogrowski]: know it's I wasn't I [Member Kevin Winter]: I wasn't listed. Right? [Chair Alice Emmons]: I don't think Sean was either. Were you listed? I don't think Sean was either. [Speaker 4 ]: As long as we stick [Ben Novogrowski]: to our subgroups, we're fine. [Chair Alice Emmons]: So what are the subgroups? [Ben Novogrowski]: I'm in commissary with [Vice Chair James Gregoire]: With Trulia. [Ben Novogrowski]: You're commissary too. I am. Yeah. Do you So you're nine you and I. And So you're nine thirty. You're really nine thirty nine nine thirty to ten. Back. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Correct. Correct. [Chair Alice Emmons]: Yeah. I mean, if you folks find that there's a way to go forward and you cleared things up and language needs to be taken care of and change, we can we'll meet as a committee. We can do that. We can do that at ten thirty, Bob Horn. [Ben Novogrowski]: Well, I we'll see. But I I think the commissary thing is that there's some there's some source information that hasn't been remitted to us. [Chair Alice Emmons]: You might get it tomorrow. You might not. [Ben Novogrowski]: You know? If we don't, then it [Chair Alice Emmons]: So why why don't we circle back here? Mhmm. So you're meeting at nine and nine I turn [Ben Novogrowski]: that. Friend. [Chair Alice Emmons]: Why don't we try around ten thirty? [Ben Novogrowski]: Yeah. Let's see. I [Chair Alice Emmons]: circle back. [Ben Novogrowski]: Because we'll at least have something presented. [Chair Alice Emmons]: Yeah. Something Well, you [Ben Novogrowski]: can see what it is. Yeah. Then there can be discussions from there. Yeah. [Chair Alice Emmons]: But the trip down to Windsor, I'd love to do it. [Speaker 4 ]: Sure. I [Chair Alice Emmons]: just That's [Ben Novogrowski]: a whole day. Right? [Chair Alice Emmons]: It's a day. It's an hour and a half drive down there. [Ben Novogrowski]: That's three hours drive. Hour. I'm not sure. [Speaker 4 ]: We'll have to do it [Ben Novogrowski]: next year. [Chair Alice Emmons]: By the time you get down there, it takes an hour to get to the next to the next to the next [Ben Novogrowski]: to the next to the next to the next to the next. An hour from the exit? [Chair Alice Emmons]: No. It takes from here [Ben Novogrowski]: Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. That part I know. [Chair Alice Emmons]: What's that? Fifty minutes to White River. [Ben Novogrowski]: Station or [Chair Alice Emmons]: something? Down from that, and that's another five or six miles in. So I give you by the time you get all situated, down there, it's an hour and a half. We get all sure I would call it forty five minutes. Yeah. And then to tour, it's gonna take a couple of hours and then another hour and a half or so back up. It's a [Ben Novogrowski]: whole day. Yeah. [Chair Alice Emmons]: And we're on the floor at nine thirty next week. [Ben Novogrowski]: Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm. About all week. [Chair Alice Emmons]: Ten o'clock Tuesday, nine thirty. What happens next week? It's a German week. It's gonna happen this week too. You're on the floor at nine thirty. Take care of what you got. You recess until the fall of the gavel, which could be in two hours, could be in three hours, [Ben Novogrowski]: could be [Chair Alice Emmons]: in four hours, could be in [Ben Novogrowski]: six hours. Happening this week. [Chair Alice Emmons]: Should've started this week. [Speaker 4 ]: Which is [Chair Alice Emmons]: senate should be sending if you look at the senate calendar, they have a full calendar. They're not sending over the house bills. That's why you meet and then recess because then it allows the other party to pass over those things. If they suspend the rules, they'll send the oath. You're gonna also suspend rules. If you don't suspend rules, you're here forever. [Speaker 4 ]: And this is when it's more we've said it multiple times, but this is when it's really important to pay attention to your telephone. You know? If we get told come back at one and then you you you can show back up at one. Maybe they changed it to one thirty, or maybe there's something that comes to a committee. It probably maybe it won't, but there there are times when something comes back to a committee. You have to do a a Vowel four or drive by or some other thing. You never know what's gonna pay attention to your phones for the next couple weeks, and then [Chair Alice Emmons]: you can Next couple of weeks. Next week. [Speaker 4 ]: Well, this week and next week. [Chair Alice Emmons]: So that's why the trip to Windsor is just it's so tough. Doers. [Member Kevin Winter]: He'd rather do that than the librarian. That's all. [Speaker 4 ]: You You don't wanna be the librarian? Yes. [Chair Alice Emmons]: But it might be good to get the state librarian in to talk about books in prison. [Ben Novogrowski]: I actually like that idea myself too with con I've been thinking about that for a while since we've had them in here. Like, how do we how could we do that locally to get books together? [Connor Casey]: I've done some national research too, or I met my intern though, but so you don't wanna send that around to me? [Chair Alice Emmons]: Well, you know, the other thing that that rattled around in my mind with this is in some communities, they have book sales. And members of the community donate books to their library, and the library has book sales as [Ben Novogrowski]: sort of say, all encompassing, all [Member Kevin Winter]: encompassing, all encompassing. [Ben Novogrowski]: What isn't sold? [Speaker 4 ]: Take the rest. [Chair Alice Emmons]: Yeah. What isn't sold? And they know they're not gonna sell it or keep circling back around. It doesn't sell after about two or three sales donated to the production. [Connor Casey]: So because your old fellow said he was in for four months, but even by that, it was getting a bit dry. [Chair Alice Emmons]: Well, they're pretty if you've gone into any facility and you look at their library, it's pretty big enough books. [Speaker 4 ]: Yep. Well, you just mentioned too, like, if the book doesn't sell three times, does that sound like it's a book that most people wanna read? I'm not trying to be silly about it either, but [Ben Novogrowski]: Maybe it's so good that everybody's already read it. [Connor Casey]: Could be. [Chair Alice Emmons]: Could be. Yeah. [Speaker 4 ]: I like how you're positive thinking. [Ben Novogrowski]: But, I [Speaker 4 ]: mean, that's my thought, though. It's not like it's a Star Wars novel. [Chair Alice Emmons]: So let's see if we could get the state library. In. Yeah. I mean, the other thing we could do, I mean, another field trip, is down for the historical society and the state library. They're in the same building. [Ben Novogrowski]: Right here in the [Chair Alice Emmons]: No. In Barrie. [Ben Novogrowski]: Oh, Barrie. That's what [Chair Alice Emmons]: We put seven hundred thousand in the capital bill to help them with some drainage issues and flooding issues. [Ben Novogrowski]: Alright. I already told that. You're ahead of us. We should see that. [Chair Alice Emmons]: So you can sleep in that morning. [Ben Novogrowski]: No. Get up. Get up. [Chair Alice Emmons]: But they had this the state library got moved from the state library building in Berlin. They moved to the building in the historical society in Barrie, and that's when we moved the state police barracks from Middlesex down to Berlin into that building. [Speaker 4 ]: Yep. That sounds like a good one. [Chair Alice Emmons]: We could do we could make if people are interested, we could do that. [Speaker 4 ]: Absolutely. [Chair Alice Emmons]: People are interested. The parking is a real issue there. Parking is a real issue. [Ben Novogrowski]: I park all the way down. [Chair Alice Emmons]: Yeah. Parking is a real issue, so we have to consolidate cars. Would folks be interested in doing that? [Ben Novogrowski]: I'm a little sure. Yeah. [Chair Alice Emmons]: We'll see what we can do. [Vice Chair James Gregoire]: How many more days are we talking about realistically? [Chair Alice Emmons]: Well, next week. We got tomorrow. [Speaker 4 ]: Till thirty. And then the weekend after [Chair Alice Emmons]: Friday. And now we've got next week, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, possibly Saturday. [Vice Chair James Gregoire]: But if we're on call, we're not making a field trip, are we? [Chair Alice Emmons]: It's gonna be a tough one. [Ben Novogrowski]: Right. Sliding, you know, like, when we see our agony. [Chair Alice Emmons]: You get a yeah. I mean, it would be [Ben Novogrowski]: super clear. [Chair Alice Emmons]: For a moment because true. Probably two is the afternoon. But we don't know. It's not going like most of the You know, [Ben Novogrowski]: it it [Chair Alice Emmons]: means in the morning, you could recess till one o'clock. You could be done at ten and recess in one. [Speaker 4 ]: We can do a couple of weeks. [Ben Novogrowski]: We can [Speaker 4 ]: do it One month. Two weeks. To do [Ben Novogrowski]: it. Friday. [Chair Alice Emmons]: Seems I could do tomorrow afternoon. We don't have the two sixty six or whatever the big bill that's coming up Friday. When's the DMV bill coming up? Is that tomorrow or Friday, Troy? [Ben Novogrowski]: It's our Wednesday. [Chair Alice Emmons]: Next week? Yeah. [Ben Novogrowski]: That's what the majority of leaders told me. [Speaker 4 ]: We didn't have Two sixty [Ben Novogrowski]: six got moved to [Chair Alice Emmons]: Friday. Friday. [Ben Novogrowski]: So that's gotta go to it's I think it's in Verizon Meet right now, and it's still gotta go to mobile content. [Chair Alice Emmons]: When is Chip coming up? [Ben Novogrowski]: To Friday as well, it sounds like. Oh. Trying to get some know. He hasn't been Oh. [Chair Alice Emmons]: That was we were on Oh. [Ben Novogrowski]: For tomorrow. For tomorrow. [Chair Alice Emmons]: That was pretty [Speaker 4 ]: pretty hard. [Chair Alice Emmons]: I mean, what's on notice, Carl? [Ben Novogrowski]: Yeah. Yeah. I think we've [Vice Chair James Gregoire]: got a trip. [Chair Alice Emmons]: So Well, we got the trip back to housing and housing development, so that one's been postponed, but not yet. [Ben Novogrowski]: That sounds like it's capping on the side. Seven for some reason. Three. [Chair Alice Emmons]: That's that's the DMV law. That's the DMV. So that's next Thursday. Right? [Ben Novogrowski]: Tuesday or Wednesday. Probably like No. Your time. No. That's fine. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, man. That's not good. Problem. [Chair Alice Emmons]: We'll do something tomorrow. [Ben Novogrowski]: What time, Tom? Two? [Speaker 4 ]: Yeah. Two. [Chair Alice Emmons]: Well, we'll have to be really limited in cars that we take because parking is a little issue there. [Ben Novogrowski]: Isn't it right going up the hill down the left? So you there's parking behind the the [Chair Alice Emmons]: It's tough. Parking is tough there. [Ben Novogrowski]: Yeah. But you can park behind the the the buildings there on the left downtown. There's parking areas back there. I mean, you gotta pay for it. But You also can go left there, and you'll come to a park, and there's parking around the Kelsey's gonna book us up with the cops. It's all good. The twenty seventh's coming out. [Chair Alice Emmons]: They have all the way around. Well, in front of Mcfarlane, whatever it is now. And that's not Mcfarlane. [Speaker 4 ]: It was [Chair Alice Emmons]: for Mcfarlane. It was for Mcfarlane. Yeah. It's all street corner. [Ben Novogrowski]: But it was all all the way up. It was all. [Vice Chair James Gregoire]: We can sorry. But but [Ben Novogrowski]: you seem to be optimistic. [Chair Alice Emmons]: Well, we're off to We're [Ben Novogrowski]: not a guy. [Member Kevin Winter]: So let [Chair Alice Emmons]: Exactly. Share ten thirty tomorrow. Let's all circle back. Phil will try to [Ben Novogrowski]: see if we can highly controversial thing. [Chair Alice Emmons]: Down to the historical society and state libraries. And then we can also schedule in the state librarian to come in and talk about books in our correctional facilities.

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